Thread: HEMA?

I'm new to this forum, but not to BRP systems (I remember the fateful day I found RQ3 on clearance in a book store in the 90s; D&D was never the same afterwards).
My other main hobbies are Texas-style BBQ and HEMA (which stands for Historical European Martial Arts, if you are not aware). Anyone else out there into HEMA at all? We sometimes note on our forums how many people into studying historical martial arts are also into gaming, so I'm curious if I might already know anyone here. HEMA is also sometimes known as "WMA" (for Western Martial Arts, though WMA is somewhat broader than HEMA, technically), or "historical fencing" (which is a little misleading because it seemingly ignores the rich tradition of grappling), or "Kunst des Fechtens" (translated from German as Art of Fighting/Fencing; we tend to throw around a lot of German terminology because so many period texts are in that language).
Lest you be confused, the hobby is something somewhat related to but still very distinctive from historical re-enactment, LARP/SCA, or sport fencing. That and different HEMA groups have a different take on it all.
Some of us HEMAists have tried to take what we know (or think we know) about historical fighting and implement it into gaming. Some have published their ideas in games like The Riddle of Steel, and Codex Martialis (which is a supplement for D&D 3.5, and makes the game bearable, even if I still prefer BRP mechanics). I've homebrewed my own ideas on this into RQ3 for a while, and am updating them into BRP, but I'm curious as to whether anyone else out there is already doing this. Or if there is interest in seeing the results. Or if there are just kindred spirits I can bounce ideas off of.
Looking forward to getting to know everybody!

Welcome!

Anyone else out there into HEMA at all?

Yes, and I've already incorporated my own personal take on things in MRQ2/Legend and the forthcoming RQ6. But I look forwards to see how another practitioner of historical combat would approach making BRP more interesting.

Originally Posted by Almost Normal

Anyone else out there into HEMA at all?

When I was a bit younger and more agile I was into rapier fencing, the kind of
rapier fencing rediscovered by John Clements of ARMA, and a little into various
neighbouring fencing techniques. This is one of the reasons why I tend to have
problems with the way BRP handles the use of two weapons (for example rapier
and dagger), parrying with a secondary weapon, and all that - and of course
the lack of rules for "Kampfringen", although I never really was into longsword
and Thalhoffer and company, or the kung fu like rapier "Kampfringen" style of
that late Renaissance guy whose name I cannot remember right now.

Originally Posted by rust

although I never really was into longsword
and Thalhoffer and company

I have to say longsword is by far my favourite style for its combination of elegance, power and swiftness; although I'm probably a little more effective with sword and Viking round shield.

Originally Posted by Pete Nash

I have to say longsword is by far my favourite style for its combination of elegance, power and swiftness ...

Yes, I can see your point, and I very much like to see the longsword used well.
I just prefer thrusting weapons like the rapier to cutting weapons like the long-
sword, so the dress sword as the rapier's ancestor and the smallsword as the
rapier's successor were the closest I ever came to the longsword - which is ob-
viously not really close at all.

Well, I study a bit of everything (longsword, ringen, dagger, sidesword, sword & buckler, staff) but my favorite is the messer.
Another game I have seen try to implement something vaguely HEMA-like was Witch Hunter: The Invisible World.
And then there is the computer game Mount & Blade.

Originally Posted by Almost Normal

... but my favorite is the messer.

"Messer" as in dagger or dirk, or a longer and heavier blade ?

(In German it can be both, a Renaissance weapon remotely similar to a sabre
or a shorter knife more like a dagger.)

Originally Posted by Almost Normal

I've homebrewed my own ideas on this into RQ3 for a while,

I'd like to see these, if you're offering.


A 'messer' sounds like the kind of things that ruffians use when they steal your wallet in Bowness-on-Furness.

Messer as in langes messer, or grosse messer. People argue about what the difference is, but the reality is that there are one-handed, two-handed, and hand-and-a-half versions. I like all three, but they are all variations on the type that bears a resemblance to the sabre.
I'm compiling in typed form my ideas on "fixing" BRP combat (as they have until now been notes in a notebook). I'll post them at some point, just not today. I actually met Sandy Petersen once, and he said he liked the idea of what I was doing (while acknowledging that EVERYONE homebrews to some extent). I'm still going through the BRP manual to see what I want to update from my old RQ3 manual.

I also study martial arts with a slight preference for modern and historical European ones, and try to apply that to RPGs, although I'm not on the HEMA forums.

As for my experience with various systems, TRoS and MRQ2/Legend are among the best takes on the armed combat subject, indeed, closely followed by ORE, "classical" BRP, GURPS and Savage worlds. Surprisingly, the new LotW would do a good job for historical combat, and with the right group, the small RPG Enemy Gods by John Wick and even some FATE games would work!