Thread: Gods and Immortals in games

Frogspawner, didn't see your post there, it must have gone up as I was typing. I'm not sure, I could work that in pretty easily, but he's not so much a god as a harvester of souls, like the grim reaper. He had no cults (as far as I'm aware, that is), but was always depicted as very powerful, being the embodiment of death.

Now that I think about it though, I can see him being given due respect, so maybe a cult would be an easy fit, workable without being forced in. Maybe in each realm or domain could have a place set aside where people could show reverence or something like that.

Originally Posted by Rob

I mean, back in those days, isn't that what people believed? If something bad happened, "Shit, the gods are pissed off again".

I think so. As I see it, mythologies are at their core mostly attempts to create an explanation
for otherwise difficult to explain events by inventing a system of mythological entities and their
powers and motives which create a more or less plausible "pattern of events" to fit the events
into. The main difference between the real world mythologies and fantasy mythologies is probab-
ly that in a fantasy world the mythological entities really exist and the "pattern of events" crea-
ted by their actions is therefore a lot more consistent and plausible - the events happen far mo-
re often at the right time and place and hit far more often the most plausible targets, there is
much less randomness.

Originally Posted by rust

I think so. As I see it, mythologies are at their core mostly attempts to create an explanation
for otherwise difficult to explain events by inventing a system of mythological entities and their
powers and motives which create a more or less plausible "pattern of events" to fit the events
into. The main difference between the real world mythologies and fantasy mythologies is probab-
ly that in a fantasy world the mythological entities really exist and the "pattern of events" crea-
ted by their actions is therefore a lot more consistent and plausible - the events happen far mo-
re often at the right time and place and hit far more often the most plausible targets, there is
much less randomness.

It was space alien I tell you, it was! lol

Makes sense to me. I can't answer your question on Celestial Empires, I've never tried it. All I've played are D&D (including Dark Sun), Cthulhu, Traveller and Bushido. I don't recommend Bushido, it's awful. Any pen and paper RPG that restricts the player in how they should behave in character is not one you can enjoy. For me anyway.

Going back to your question, what does CPP stand for? Something to do with character points?

Originally Posted by Rob

Makes sense to me. I can't answer your question on Celestial Empires, I've never tried it. All I've played are D&D (including Dark Sun), Cthulhu, Traveller and Bushido. I don't recommend Bushido, it's awful. Any pen and paper RPG that restricts the player in how they should behave in character is not one you can enjoy. For me anyway.

Going back to your question, what does CPP stand for? Something to do with character points?

*Looks around sheepishly*

It is official I cannot type....for toffee.

Sorry should be CPC, Character Point Cost

But that was kinda the point of Bushido. Your character advances or regresses by gaining or losing Face, Honor, whatever you call it. Follow the Code and you advance in society (and in experience points). Break it or defy it and you actually lose experience points, assuming you don't suffer a quick death to cleanse with your blood the shame you've brought upon your family and extended clan. It is restrictive. But that's the culture. Freedom of choice is a Judeo-Christian Western concept. It doesn't exist in many Eastern or Mideastern cultures, especially not in historical ones. You exist to benefit the Group (family, tribe, nation, whatever); rugged individualism isn't admired or encouraged. In those cultures, the squeaky wheel doesn't get the grease; instead, the nail that sticks out gets hammered down, hard. I thought the game's mechanics, enforcing the culture, was clever. Forget collecting gold pieces, guard your reputation!

Originally Posted by rogerd

It's not like any of the gods in that setting are all that powerful, are they? ...Glorantha...

Oh, it's Glorantha? Didn't realize. (BTW, to me 'CPC' can only be 'Crispy Prawn Crackers'... )

Originally Posted by Rob

Frogspawner, didn't see your post...

Thanks, but no worries. I didn't see Rust's post till after, either - his "the gods speak through omens" idea is spot-on, better than avatars (esp. for for low-level stuff). And once you've got interpreters of omens - they are the priests...

Originally Posted by frogspawner

Oh, it's Glorantha? Didn't realize. (BTW, to me 'CPC' can only be 'Crispy Prawn Crackers'... )

Bastard now you've made me hungry and well look what i haz in the cupboards.

Mmmmmmmmmm...........Homer moment lol

Originally Posted by seneschal

But that was kinda the point of Bushido. Your character advances or regresses by gaining or losing Face, Honor, whatever you call it. Follow the Code and you advance in society (and in experience points). Break it or defy it and you actually lose experience points, assuming you don't suffer a quick death to cleanse with your blood the shame you've brought upon your family and extended clan. It is restrictive. But that's the culture. Freedom of choice is a Judeo-Christian Western concept. It doesn't exist in many Eastern or Mideastern cultures, especially not in historical ones. You exist to benefit the Group (family, tribe, nation, whatever); rugged individualism isn't admired or encouraged. In those cultures, the squeaky wheel doesn't get the grease; instead, the nail that sticks out gets hammered down, hard. I thought the game's mechanics, enforcing the culture, was clever. Forget collecting gold pieces, guard your reputation!

I get where you're coming from and I do understand all that, but to me, when you game, it's a chance to let your imagination cut loose, to do the things you'd nevre do in realf life (killing, being the obvious example, or willingly climbing a wall to break into a psychopath's home) and to have fun. The mechanice work well, no doubt, but the way I see it, I roll up the character, but strictly speaking, it's not really my character, it doesn't feel that way to me. I'm all for personal honour, something I take seriously in real life, but historical accuracy should only go so far before it becomes just a re-enactment. To me, it's a very oppressive rules system that instead of rewarding a gamer's imagination and risk-taking, rewards the player's knowledge of feudal Japan, meaning any new player is screwed unless they know a lot about the subject or just spend the time doing what a superior tells them to. What I'm saying is there should be more leeway as it's a game. I get the idea behind it and I get the attraction, but I just feel like there's a better way to do it. I'm not sure what that is, but it'll be out there.

As for freedom of choice, I disagree on it being a Judeo-christian ideal because from what I remember of the bible, people got punished for an awful lot. Freedom of choice existed long before religion. Doing things for family, clan etc is fine, but there are more fun ways to do that in other systems I have played before and the beauty of it is that it comes down to how you play your character within the code that the player can set themselves and that comes with its own rewards. For me (and feel free to disagree), Bushido is more about doing what the game tells you to, rather than the trial and error approach that makes it fun in the first place.

Sorry but by that thinking it's NEVER really your character.

All PCs are defined and restricted somewhat by the setting and culture they live in. At least in any decent campaign. Yeah, there are the power romps where the GM sits back and lets the players get away with whatever they want with no consequence, but that's not really role-playing is it?

As far a freedom of choice goes, in all cultures you have freedom of choice. It's just they you might have to pay for choosing wrong. Freedom of choice does not mean that you actions don't have consequences.

I disagree that " Bushido is more about doing what the game tells you to, rather than the trial and error approach that makes it fun in the first place." I think that your problem here is that you probably have a better grasp on what is expected of you in a typical FRPG setting than in what is expected of your in a setting based on Feudal Japan. Note that I say typical FRPG, not Feudal Europe. A setting based on Feudal Europe would probably be even more restricted than a Japanese one.

You really don't have as much freedom to "set your own code" in most RPGs as you state. It's jsut that the codes of behavior that you have been setting for your characters in most games are probably more in tune with the acceptable code of behavior for the setting you are gaming in.