Thread: Opposed skill rolls

Originally Posted by tooley1chris

Hey, I'm a noob to BRP but already a big fan of the system.
I haven't played it yet but am planning on GMing soon as the others in my group are just players...
Anyway I have a question about opposing skill rolls.
In the golden book there is an example of a character using hide verses another using spot. It reads that the hiding character rolls a success and the spotter rolls a special success [...] Is this an error?

As said above there are several ways to handle opposed skill rolls.

The simpliest way, in my humble opinion, is this one:

The best success always win: a critical success win a special success; a special success win a normal success; a normal success win a failure; and a failure win a critical failure. When both characters obtain the same level of success, then compmare the numbers rolled on the dice: the higher one win (that way, someone with a skill of 75% will have much more chance to win than someone with a skill of 25%).

So, in your example, if the hiding character just rolled a normal success while the spotter rolled a special success, the spotter would find the hiding character.

This is what is explained in the BRP quickstart - if I remember well, because I have not my books at hand.

It is the easiest way to do things, especially for beginners. Now, there are others. Thus, once you will be used with this rule, you will be able to choose a rule that best fit to what you are really looking for.

Note that this simple rule already allows a huge diversity of interpretation. A normal success vs a special success may for instance be interpreted differently from a critical failure vs an ordinary failure. In the first case, the hinding character hides himself well, but the spotter is very aware, has luck or both, and still find it: a tiny detail alerts him. In the second case, the spotter just found the hiding character by chance despite of the fact that everyone else around would have seen him.

The way I do it is to move all rolls up a level until one fails and then use that result.

So, a Success vs a Special becomes a Failure vs a Success.

It is easy and doesn't involve working much out at all.

Also, BRP rolls are made simultaneously, in theory, so the idea that if I roll a Special then the other person has a harder roll doesnt really wash. In reality, it makes me feel very happy until the opponent rolls a 01.

Originally Posted by soltakss

The way I do it is to move all rolls up a level until one fails and then use that result.

So, a Success vs a Special becomes a Failure vs a Success.

It is easy and doesn't involve working much out at all.

Also, BRP rolls are made simultaneously, in theory, so the idea that if I roll a Special then the other person has a harder roll doesnt really wash. In reality, it makes me feel very happy until the opponent rolls a 01.

The opposed skill mechanic is the same mechanic used in the Attack and Defense Matrix on page 193 of BRP.

Arthur Reyes created a cool opposed skill chart so you can just follow the chart and not have to do any thinking:

Opposed Skill Rolls - Downloads - Basic Roleplaying Central

Opposed Rolls : I oppose them.

Never use 'em - they're unnecessary & confusing. As we see from this thread, they can be interpreted in so many different ways. Not at all helpful, especially for beginners.

My big complaint with this BRP version is that it introduces opposed rolling for combat (with that Attack/Defence Matrix) and (despite so many options for other things) it's not optional.

Each individual skill roll should have independently defined effects.

(The effects of Hide & Spot are a separate issue - a tricky problem in itself, for which I admit I don't have a very good answer. Instead of working on that real problem, I usually get distracted by this Opposed Roll v Independent Roll debate!)

Originally Posted by RosenMcStern

The rule is extremely simple. If one contestant succeeds and the other fails, no need to explain what happens.

If both succeed, then you must determine which contestant succeeded better, if any. If one of the contestants has a better level of success, he wins, but the other's success "limits" the advantages achieved with a special or critical result. If both contestants have the same level of success, the highest roll wins (lowest if you want to favour chance over skill), but this kind of victory is quite marginal. In some cases, notably combat, there is little or no benefit from the victory and the conflict may continue.

Sorry to have repeated what you wrote. I'd better have read this thread with much more attention before posting.

Originally Posted by RosenMcStern

The most important thing to keep in mind is that an opposed roll is not always a "one side must win" affair like a resistance table roll. There are cases where this is true, and cases where it is not. This is why you cannot simply universalize the "blackjack" method.

Yes. You can always rule that when the two characters get the same level of success or failure, none of them win... Especially when they both failed.

An example: stealth. The one who is trying to move silently made noise... The guard heard it but doesn't success to know where it comes from. "Is there someone here? I know there is someone... I heard you... Come on and show yourself, or you will have problem..."

Originally Posted by frogspawner

Each individual skill roll should have independently defined effects.

There are still situations in which actions are not independant. Someone who is trying to do something while another one is trying to prevent him from doing it. Then, the success of one means the failure of the other.

What I really like with the Basic System is the fact that each die roll can be interpreted for what it is before determining who won: critical success, special success, ordinary success, ordinary failure or fumble... It really allows a huge number of different interpretations of how the winner won.

Originally Posted by silent_bob

The opposed skill mechanic is the same mechanic used in the Attack and Defense Matrix on page 193 of BRP.

Arthur Reyes created a cool opposed skill chart so you can just follow the chart and not have to do any thinking:

Opposed Skill Rolls - Downloads - Basic Roleplaying Central

And Silent Bob wins! This is just what I need! Thanks for the link and the work from Reyes!

Originally Posted by Gollum

Then, the success of one means the failure of the other.

OK, but aside from ones covered by STRvSTR, POWvPOW etc, I can't know of any right now. Examples, please? But even then, I'll almost certainly prefer to Keep It Simple than get into OR confusions.

Originally Posted by Gollum

What I really like with the Basic System is the fact that each die roll can be interpreted for what it is before determining who won: critical success, special success, ordinary success, ordinary failure or fumble...

Absolutely. To me though, Opposed Rolling spoils that.

Originally Posted by frogspawner

OK, but aside from ones covered by STRvSTR, POWvPOW etc, I can't know of any right now. Examples, please? But even then, I'll almost certainly prefer to Keep It Simple than get into OR confusions.

Stealth vs Listen or Hide vs Spot are two good examples of that. The first character tries not being noticed while the second one tries to notice him.

Originally Posted by frogspawner

Absolutely. To me though, Opposed Rolling spoils that.

Not really. It doesn't prevent you to begin with an interpretation of the rolls as if it was ordinary actions. But it also gives you a solution to know who win when both rolls are sucessfull or failed.

Originally Posted by tooley1chris

And Silent Bob wins! This is just what I need! Thanks for the link and the work from Reyes!

Fine. I was sure that someone would give you the solution you needed. The Basic system often has several solutions to solve a problem. So, not finding the one which fits to your manner of running game is not usual.