[Nightshade]

Originally Posted by Atgxtg

I'm not surprised at your stance. Basically it is the same argument as the one over Mages potentially overshadowing warriors.

I'll still say that the problem is more stylistic than system. The reason why there is a problem is because many systems and GMs run a combat oriented style of play, so any combat advantage will "unbalance" the campaign. The classic expample would be D&D, where everything is set up around the level of the characters. Toss in a 10th level PC with a 5th level D&D group and there goes the campaign.

But, if you use a differernt apporach, and make the non-combat skills as useful, fun and interesting as combat, the problem disappears. One thing that

The problem is that on the whole, in the sort of adventure settings that are usually being represented, I don't think those other abilities _are_ as important, when viewed in terms of screen time and the like. That doesn't mean they have no importance. In addition, I don't think most other aspects of the game are usually well suited to group activity. For the most part, investigation, intrusion, research and other aspects tend to be individual, or perhaps small subsets of groups doing them. This can mean quite large periods with most of a group twiddling their thumbs. So even if you deliberately downplay the common combat elements in most genres, you still have problems.

One thing that most RPGs do is that they put tons and tons of detail into combat, while glossing over most other actions with a single "success/fail" skill roll. A fight with a thug could take a few minutes, have lots of give & take as the characters punch, kick, dodge, duck, and grapple. On the other hand, scaling a 30 story building usually means-make a climb roll.

While I don't entirely disagree, I think that's largely to address the above issue. You usually don't have the whole group scaling the building, so spending too much time on it can easily be seen as counterproductive. One of the interesting things in the freeware game JAGS is the idea of Dramatic Systems; basically turning pass-fail rolls into little subgames like combat. I think that works when you've got a whole group that will be involved in those subsystems (as, for example, a whole group of spies doing an intrusion operation) but I don't think its actually benign when you have a bunch of seperate specialties.

SO it really is a lot about playing style.

While I don't _entirely_ disagree, I think there's some issues of degree I can't agree with this on.