[Nightshade]

Originally Posted by Atgxtg

I think we are reaching a common ground.

I for one will say that I think the stress on combat has less to do with it being more sutiable as a group activity then the fact that RPGs grew out of wargames.

I'd argue that its basis on adventure fiction has at least as much to do with that, but whether that was a choice first is a chicken-and-egg argument.

Many RPGs tend to treat combat as interesting and exciting, and everything else as a distraction. In fact, other activities are often penalized by the way such games award experience. For example, negotiating a peace treaty, or saving someone's life on the operating table aren't rewarded as well as knocking off a half dozen goblins.

I think its bad to extend that arguement too far; that's been an element of D&D, but even D&D itself moved somewhat away from that with 3e (where you can get every bit as much negotiating with the goblins as killing them, if that will also solve your problem) and few other game systems even pay attention to what you're fighting as such. In fact, short of directly D&D derived systems (such as Palladium), I'm not sure I can think of one that does. Can you (as you seem fairly knowledgable in the field)? Certainly none of the other big name systems (GURPS, Hero, Storyteller) do.

It is all about challenges, an consequnces for failure. Often combat is exciting because the stakes are high (in many games, if you loose, you loose your character). Tension can build, the situation can escalate, and so on. If we add other forms of conflict, and give them rewards and consequences then they can be exciting, too.

But again, that doesn't solve the individual-involvement problem, and I don't think that's at all trivial.

I thing the major obstacle is that such an approach is relatively new, and many GMs just don't consider it. That one reason why STR and DEX are so important in RPGs, while INT and APP aren't. In the real world a high INT and APP can do a lot for you (or get other to do a lot for you). In most RPGs an 18 APP/CHA isn't nearly as good an an 18 STR.

But in the real world, you aren't concerned about keeping a whole group of players involved, either.