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Originally Posted by Lord Twig

Actually, no, he is not. He is saying that a lot of people enjoy the tactical or mechanical side of RPGs and that it is no better or worse than the Role-Playing aspect.


Again, no, he did not say that combat was the primary goal, he said that "game designs that don't pay attention to that (combat) are serving most of their end users badly". Saying that you should not ignore combat is far different than saying that it is the primary goal.

And as far as I can tell Nightshade is saying that it is perfectly fine to do so if that is what you want to do.

Yeah, Twig. He has been writing that combat is the most important thing. Look.

Originally Posted by Nightshade

The problem is that on the whole, in the sort of adventure settings that are usually being represented, I don't think those other abilities _are_ as important, when viewed in terms of screen time and the like. That doesn't mean they have no importance. In addition, I don't think most other aspects of the game are usually well suited to group activity. For the most part, investigation, intrusion, research and other aspects tend to be individual, or perhaps small subsets of groups doing them. This can mean quite large periods with most of a group twiddling their thumbs. So even if you deliberately downplay the common combat elements in most genres, you still have problems

Originally Posted by Nightshade

But in the real world, you aren't concerned about keeping a whole group of players involved, either.

Originally Posted by Lord Twig

He didn't say that RPGs should be devoted to combat. Where did he say that? He did say that RPGs that didn't focus on combat don't work for most people (but not all). Again that is different than saying that RPGs should be devoted to combat.

When he says that it doesn't work for most people and that game companies that ignore that are not serving the end users, he is strongly implying it.
Even the "most people" line is inaccurate. Most people don't play RPGs. Among gamers, "most people" translates to a fairly spefic age group of teen to college age males, most of whom are playing D&D.

But they are not the only people who game. One reason why women are sort of rare in this hobby is because most of the groups they see are just doing the fighting thing.

There are whole communities of RPGing where people do other things though. RQ was one of them.

Originally Posted by Lord Twig

This is just being rude.

How so? If there is nothing wrong with D&D them what is there to be insulted about? If balanced fights are so important, then D&D is THE system to go to, since that is a major desgin concept of the game. And combat has always been the priamry focus of the game too. Not much chance of WotC changing that anytime soon, either.

Really, what's the point of playing a game like RQ/BRP? It takes a completely different approach. Just look a Call of Cthulhu. You don't think that combat is a primary factor in that RPG? Avoiding combat is more the point. CoC is also about the most popular RPG in the horror genre, too.

But why take all the "baggage" that goes along with RQ, BRP or whatever if combat is the priamry goal? You'll get a lot more of it in d20 games.

Originally Posted by Lord Twig

First, there is nothing wrong with D&D. I never liked AD&D 1st and 2nd edition, but found the update to 3rd to be a vast improvement. Others would disagree, that doesn't make anyone wrong. It just means we have different tastes.

Second, it seems you are implying that he should go play an inferior game (D&D) because he is not advanced enough to play RQ or BRP. Please correct me if I am wrong! But the tone I am getting from your post is not very polite.

ead my post. I never made a quality judgment about D&D, or claimed that one system was better than another. No, What I'm saying is, if he believes fighting to bo so improtant to a RPG, then why isn't he playing a game that is designed to support that view?

Lots of fighting in BRp/RQ is counterproductive. One big reason why RQ wan't as combat fouced as D&D is that the critical hits will wipe out any group fairly quickly. If the game sessions were near constant combat, I doubt any group would last a month or two.

So what I really want to know is, just what is it that Nighshade likes about RQ/BRP? What are his reasons for preferring it over a more combat oriented game?


As for being rude and impolite. I've found many of his statements to be condescending ("his 30s years of experience. So what? Virtually all BRP fans are old fogies who have games since the 70s or 80s. That doesn't make his experience any less anecdotal. Time is simply not enough informational to go on. I've know people who have games for as many years. Some are good, some still don't know what dice to roll half the time. I've also known people who have been driving for 30 years, but aren't any better at it than people who haven't) and rude (he doesn't just not respond, he "Won't bother to").