Fatigue...

[Nightshade]

Originally Posted by Atgxtg

Well, I'd say it works for you and your gaming group. As long as it works for the group too, I don't think there is a problem with the style. If it worked for you, and only you, and your group was miserable, that would be something else.

I completely agree. I'm sometimes a bit cynical on the Net because I've encountered a few too many GMs in real life who thought their particular styles were fine and worked well and who's players, while not confrontational about it, had, shall we say, a different take. But I try to keep that down to a dull roar, because its a fundamentally no-win situation for the person on the other side; what proof can they offer, after all?

[Atgxtg]

Originally Posted by Nightshade

Well, I have a personal ethic here that I generally dislike applying rules to players I wouldn't pay attention to myself; so for the most part, if I'm not bookkeeping something, the players know it because they aren't expected to either. And since I don't do their bookkeeping for them.

I dunno, I can disagree a bit here. For one thing the players only have to track one character each, and their characters are the central focus of the campaign. But the GM has to track virtually everyone else, and many such characters have only "walk on" parts.

I doubt I'd track fatigue too closely for, say, trollkin, as I would not expect them to last long enough to get tired. If one somehow did hang around a bit, I'd just apply an ad hoc penalty, and maybe track FP from there. After all, if he stuck it out that long, maybe he WAS a little better than 37% after all.

[Nightshade]

Originally Posted by Kloster

Most of ours were VERY short because:
- of low armor at the beginning.

Even a couple points can keep you up. If an opponent doesn't have a damage bonus, the average damage from most of the melee weapons is in the 4-6 range; 2 points of armor will often take that down where you can take a hit or two depending on the roll and where they land.

- of high damage at higher levels

Its virtually as easy to boost armor magically as it is damage.

even with healing magic. It is so easy to disrupt somebody that tries to heal himself while engaged that it is almost impossible. The big healing starts after the fight.

Small healing spells are quick enough few melee attacks can land before they're off. You just don't try and to the big ones (at least on yourself) while in melee.

And for long duration, don't forget that, according to the rules, your character collapse when he reaches negative (STR+CON). It is impossible to have very long fights.

Yes, but if you aren't already encumbered rather heavily, that can take rather more than the length of time I'm talking about.

[Nightshade]

Originally Posted by Atgxtg

I dunno, I can disagree a bit here. For one thing the players only have to track one character each, and their characters are the central focus of the campaign. But the GM has to track virtually everyone else, and many such characters have only "walk on" parts.

All true, and none of it changes my personal ethic here.

I doubt I'd track fatigue too closely for, say, trollkin, as I would not expect them to last long enough to get tired. If one somehow did hang around a bit, I'd just apply an ad hoc penalty, and maybe track FP from there. After all, if he stuck it out that long, maybe he WAS a little better than 37% after all.

Well, that's only an issue because of the bookkeeping overhead on the RQ3 style fatigue. As I've noted, I was never that fond of that version in the first place because its simultaneously too fiddly _and_ often too irrelevant. When I used the AIG version, I paid attention to it for everyone, as typically I was going to only have to do it 1-3 times per fight. I certainly paid attention to NPC magic point usage, however, as its too important too often.

[Atgxtg]

Originally Posted by Nightshade

All true, and none of it changes my personal ethic here.

Not a problem. You can choose to do as much work as you want. THere is a point of diminishing returns, however.

Originally Posted by Nightshade

Well, that's only an issue because of the bookkeeping overhead on the RQ3 style fatigue. As I've noted, I was never that fond of that version in the first place because its simultaneously too fiddly _and_ often too irrelevant. When I used the AIG version, I paid attention to it for everyone, as typically I was going to only have to do it 1-3 times per fight. I certainly paid attention to NPC magic point usage, however, as its too important too often.

[/quote]

No, I think it is a issue as to just how much work an effort the trollkin was worth. Same reason why NPCs got a short list of significant skills rather than full character sheets. He just isn't worth the detail. Now, some RPGs even simplify that further, and just track the one of two things that are needed to run the NPC in the context required by the adventure.

Likewise, I've been know to simplify HP and damage for monsters. I've gotne with "anything over 1/3 hp takes out a hit location and general HP and gotten results close enough to full fledged BRP combat to get past the players.

[Kloster]

Originally Posted by Nightshade

Even a couple points can keep you up. If an opponent doesn't have a damage bonus, the average damage from most of the melee weapons is in the 4-6 range; 2 points of armor will often take that down where you can take a hit or two depending on the roll and where they land.
...

A few points here:
- to get a Damage Bonus of 1D4, you need a STR+SIZ of at least 25 and the average is 24, so this DB is quite frequent.
- Yes, I agree, you can take a hit or 2, which means around 5/6 MR. After that, you have HP or location problems, which is exactly the durations I gave: less than 10 MR.
- Completely agree: "you can take a hit or two depending on the roll and where they land". Yes, depending.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

[Kloster]

Originally Posted by Nightshade

...
Its virtually as easy to boost armor magically as it is damage.
...

True. Completely true.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

[Kloster]

Originally Posted by Nightshade

...
Yes, but if you aren't already encumbered rather heavily, that can take rather more than the length of time I'm talking about.

The average on CON+STR is 21. A character with 25 FP is above average.
With a SIZ of 13 (the average) he has 7 to 10 ENC taken by Armor, around 10 by weapons and shield. He is thus starting fight with around 5 FP and can go down to -25.

Without taking rest, this character can last 30 MR.

But that character has almost NO equipment. He has nothing besides armor, weapons and shield. If this character has only the basics for non combat equipment (1 or 2 liter of water, 1 day food, a rope, some torches,...), this is far below. And this is not grossly overencumbered.


Runequestement votre,

Kloster

[Atgxtg]

Originally Posted by Kloster

The average on CON+STR is 21. A character with 25 FP is above average.
With a SIZ of 13 (the average) he has 7 to 10 ENC taken by Armor, around 10 by weapons and shield. He is thus starting fight with around 5 FP and can go down to -25.

Without taking rest, this character can last 30 MR.

But that character has almost NO equipment. He has nothing besides armor, weapons and shield. If this character has only the basics for non combat equipment (1 or 2 liter of water, 1 day food, a rope, some torches,...), this is far below. And this is not grossly overencumbered.


Runequestement votre,

Kloster

Our tactic was to use pack animals or remove backpacks before going into battle. We also didn't go down the D&D road of every character lugging around a missile weapon, quiver, etc (that stayed on the pack animal). So, unless we were ambushed, we could just take off the non essential gear, rest a minute or so and attack with more FPs.

[Kloster]

Originally Posted by Atgxtg

Our tactic was to use pack animals or remove backpacks before going into battle. We also didn't go down the D&D road of every character lugging around a missile weapon, quiver, etc (that stayed on the pack animal). So, unless we were ambushed, we could just take off the non essential gear, rest a minute or so and attack with more FPs.

If you check, there is no luggage, no missile weapons, and very few equipments.
We also use pack animals or mounts, but still some remains.
Resting 1 minute or so means you have the choice of the combat. In most of the case, if I do have the choice and the opportunity, I don't take the fight.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster