Variable Armor Points

[Nightshade]

Originally Posted by Triff

The variable armor points were quite different from what I expected. I would have thought the conversion would be something like this:

fixed - variable
1 - 1d2
2 - 1d4
3 - 1d6
4 - 1d8
5 - 1d10
6 - 1d12
7 - 2d6
8 - 2d6+1 / 1d6+1d8

something like that (which would actually give a higher average)

If I would add the stormbringer values, my players would fall like flies!

SGL.

Well, do remember that at the least, these are games where all you have is total hit points, so its usually pretty hard to fall from one blow, in comparison to RQ, where locational effects tend to be far more crucial.

[badcat]

In Stormbringer 1-3, they do indeed drop like flies, Triff. Before I modified the critical rules a bit, at least one PC was killed every session. Of course, they did insist on using poison, firing into mixed melee with poisoned missiles, charging into combat like it was D&D, etc. After I modified the criticals we only lost a PC every couple of sessions.

[Atgxtg]

I think Triff is onto something here. Maybe instead of the fixed AP being the max value, they should be the average value?

IMO for variable AP, it would be better to use a bell curve that a lineral distrubtion. WHile it might be possible to hit a weak or strong spot, I would expect that much of the time blows will hit the largest sections. SO 5 point scale could be 2d4 rather than 1D10?, and so on.


Of course variable armor opens up the possibility of the attacker using a special success to to to place the blow on a weak spot, affecting the foes armor rather than taking an "implae" type option, or even a "wear armor" skill that the defender couold use to try and take a hit on a strong spot.

[Nightshade]

Originally Posted by badcat

In Stormbringer 1-3, they do indeed drop like flies, Triff. Before I modified the critical rules a bit, at least one PC was killed every session. Of course, they did insist on using poison, firing into mixed melee with poisoned missiles, charging into combat like it was D&D, etc. After I modified the criticals we only lost a PC every couple of sessions.

Well, truth to tell, this isn't that uncommon with any combat-intensive BRP game; back when we started with RQI, we were playing twice a week and I think by the end of the first year I had at least 80 sheets from dead characters. Experienced characters tended to last longer (and be more likely to be retrieved with divine intervention) but it wasn't like, as I noted before, one critical from a composite bow arrow wasn't plenty to kill someone if it hit a non-limb area.

[Atgxtg]

Originally Posted by Nightshade

Well, truth to tell, this isn't that uncommon with any combat-intensive BRP game; back when we started with RQI, we were playing twice a week and I think by the end of the first year I had at least 80 sheets from dead characters. Experienced characters tended to last longer (and be more likely to be retrieved with divine intervention) but it wasn't like, as I noted before, one critical from a composite bow arrow wasn't plenty to kill someone if it hit a non-limb area.

First edtion SB was much worse that RQ though. THe vartiable armor tened to cut the AP in half, and the major wound rule (take 1/2 you CON/HP form a single hit) made dropping people very common.

Toss in the extra damage die for master quality weapons, or the massive damage bonus for demon weapons (a +5D6 damage bonus was not uncommon), and anyone who wasn't wearing demon armor wasn't long for the world.

[Sorloc]

Originally Posted by RMS

The irony here being that random armor is much more realistic than fixed armor values because real armor is full of strong and weak spots that a warrior has to exploit. Additionally, random armor simulates angle of attack and it's affect on armor's ability to protect. Throughout most of history, armor was expensive, but nowhere near the cost of a house. There's a very limited time when that's true and only of the top-end armor, not the armor worn by most of the people on a battlefield.


RQ/BRP hasn't offered the ability to target weak spots in armor in the past, so I'd be surprised to see it now. MRQ offers it, but it breaks down mechanically pretty quickly and I don't see any easy way to implement such a system elegantly in BPR.

But the warrior isn't exploiting the weakness; fate is.
A defender will know where his weak spots are, and try to cover them.
An attacker tries to get past that defense into the weak spot.
How to tell if he succeeds? Your skill roll.
How to tell if he hit a weak spot? Your damage roll.
How to tell if you really exploited the chink in the armor? Did you crit?

So actually, yes, RQ DOES offer the ability to target weak spots in the armor. It actually assumes that that is what you are doing, because why wouldn't you?

You don't get a 50/50 shot at hitting a weakness in the armor, you get a 5% chance.

Really, anyone who weakens armor is someone who is revealing that they don't use encumbrance rules.


It's already there; no need to reinvent the wheel.
Yes, it does tend to devolve into a contest of who gets a crit first, or who gets exhausted first, but isn't that what a combat wearing armor really is? A test of endurance?
If your dagger could penetrate a breastplate, the armorer would make thicker breastplate - and not just in places - ALL OVER! That's kind of the point of armor, Right?

[badcat]

Actually, Atgxtg, that is what I did with variable piece armor, part 2. The scale continues past one die values. Give a value to each piece of armor, as helm=1, leather jack=2, greaves=1, etc., and add the various pieces' values up to one sum. Then use a progression as follows...

armor value protection
1 1D3-1
2 1D4-1
3 1D6-1
4 1D8-1
5 1D10-1
6 1D12-1
7 2D6-1
8 2D8-1
9 2D10-1

Or some similar variation. I've tried several different ones. Including dropping the negative mod. It includes 'armor value' for magic or master work armor as well. The player asks what armor the orc is wearing, and if he isn't wearing greaves, say, then a called shot to the leg gets no armor roll. The problem is getting the AVs to balance out right. Oh, and I have usually offered the players the option of just using the AV as a default roll, or rolling the protection rating. It was surprising how often they took the roll.

[badcat]

RATS. That didn't work too well. It is supposed to be two columns, one for 'armor value', a single digit, and the second for 'protection'.

[badcat]

...and I use encumbrance rules.

[Sorloc]

And you don't think that 1-19 is a rather large spread for the most bestest armor around?

Maybe if the curve were not so shallow...