Variable Armor Points

[Triff]

Variable armor points, like in Stormbringer, seems to be a realistic system, but I have not used it so far because of the allready long time combat takes. With hit locations gone (one roll less), I'm considering adding variable AP.

Those of you who have played with this system allready, what are the weaknesses and strengths? How does it affect gameplay?

SGL.

[Jason Durall]

I actually prefer variable armor protection far and above fixed armor point values.

It allows for some variability, doesn't slow combat down that much, and even creates some nice options for graphical descriptions of armor working or not working, such as:

(low roll) "Your armor only stops one point? Okay, then. The dagger slips between joints of the half-plate and plunges deeply into your flesh. You take seven points of damage after the armor protection."

(high roll) "Your armor stops eight points? Okay, then. The dagger scratches along the metal plates on your breastplate and leaves a bright scratch, but doesn't penetrate."

It also helps add an air of unpredictability, where fixed armor values don't. A character with fixed-point value full plate layered with something else, for example, is nigh-invulnerable to any hand weapons that don't critical or have a significant damage bonus.

I was happy to include both systems in the core rules, but whenever I play, I'm using random armor protection.

[badcat]

I have used it for a long time. It adds a lot of suspense, excitement, and flavor. Also, I developed an 'armor point' system where I assigned a point value to each individual piece of armor and had the total armor points equate to a roll based on the total of armor points. As, helm 1 point, plate cuirass 3 points, equals 4 Armor Value, which corresponds to 1D8-1 on the table, for instance. Like having your cake and eating it too. The detail can be tailored until it feels just right.

[Nightshade]

I tend to find variable armor a good thing when hit locations aren't in use (I experienced it pretty extensively when running Alternity) but probably one die roll more than its worth to me when using locations. Without locations, I think there's too much variability in terms of what armor protects where for a fixed value to be a good abstraction for quasi-realistic games.

[Joseph Paul]

I find variable armor points to be terribly unrealistic and they are one of the reasons that I never did get into Stormbringer.

I can't see anyone investing in armor that has as large a spread of vulnerability as represented by a random die roll. Real warriors did not spend the equivalent of a modern house for armor that didn't protect reliably.

If you are going to get past the armor roll a crit or work harder for it by targeting gaps or thin spots at appropriate skill reductions.

Here is a tip for reducing the pain of using some of the options all together-roll all of the dice at once. That's right- color code a pair of D10s as the percentiles, a D20 (red) as the hit location, and the damage dice as appropriate, perhaps they should be steel colored. Throw'em, read the percentiles and decide if it is a hit. If it is a failure play progresses to the next player. If it is a success you have all of the info you need already in front of you, hit location and damage.

Want to avoid the math for figuring if the hit is a fumble, crit, or special?
Add another D20 (don't forget to make it a different color!). The percentiles are then used as pass/fail while this D20 is used to determine if you have critted on a 1, specialed on a 2-4, and on a 20 you have fumbled.

When RQ came out it was lightyears ahead of other games in terms of tactical play and verisimilitude. I can't help but think of variable armor as the antithesis of that.

Joseph Paul

[drohem]

Yeah, when I ran a Strombringer campaign, I used armor protections values from RQ3. I don't like the concept of variable armor points.

[RMS]

Originally Posted by Joseph Paul

I find variable armor points to be terribly unrealistic and they are one of the reasons that I never did get into Stormbringer.

I can't see anyone investing in armor that has as large a spread of vulnerability as represented by a random die roll. Real warriors did not spend the equivalent of a modern house for armor that didn't protect reliably.

The irony here being that random armor is much more realistic than fixed armor values because real armor is full of strong and weak spots that a warrior has to exploit. Additionally, random armor simulates angle of attack and it's affect on armor's ability to protect. Throughout most of history, armor was expensive, but nowhere near the cost of a house. There's a very limited time when that's true and only of the top-end armor, not the armor worn by most of the people on a battlefield.

If you are going to get past the armor roll a crit or work harder for it by targeting gaps or thin spots at appropriate skill reductions.

RQ/BRP hasn't offered the ability to target weak spots in armor in the past, so I'd be surprised to see it now. MRQ offers it, but it breaks down mechanically pretty quickly and I don't see any easy way to implement such a system elegantly in BPR.

When RQ came out it was lightyears ahead of other games in terms of tactical play and verisimilitude. I can't help but think of variable armor as the antithesis of that.

Making armor variable is no different than making weapon damage variable. They're both there becasuse there are too many variables to track to accurately simulate what happens in real combat. Does random damage make any sense or should it be tied directly to skill or to-hit roll? Same thing.

[badcat]

I like both armor methods in BRP, but to me variable has always been more fun. Ever since I first tried it. That counts for more than anything, to me. Variable armor isn't the 'antithesis' of anything, and it works just fine. Oh, the system's main strength is the same as it's main weakness...that the armor roll can fail completely (combat is more exciting and less predictable but much more deadly). I think it just comes down, as usual, to what you prefer in your games. If you don't like it, no problem at all to include fixed armor by location. No big deal.

But give it a try. You might find that it adds excitement to the game, as our group did.

[Triff]

With variable armor, I like that people in plate armor won't be totally invulnerable to a stab from a dagger. I don't like the extra dice roll, but thinks it might be worth it. How does it work with gameplay though? Is it mainly negative or positive for the players? Mor PC-death or the same? Does it bug down combat when you have to roll it for all the NPCs too?

SGL.

[Nightshade]

As others have said, fixed armor isn't particularly realistic because its virtually impossible to design armor that protects from all blows at all angles equally. Now with locations, you'd need to have the spread be fairly tight, but with Stormbringer, where locations weren't paid attention to, you're also getting into the issue that its rare for all locations to be protected equally, too, so the system is accounting for that in addition to the lesser individual locational issues. After all, RQ3 effectively has variable armor the moment you have someone who, for example, armors their head and torso heavier than their limbs (an extremely common occurance in my experience).