How do you define BRP?

[Atgxtg]

Originally Posted by badcat

That's OK. I seem to be outvoted on that one for sure.

Hey cat,

The cool thing is, this isn't a vote. Just how "we" define BRP. That makes it entirely subjective. THat means we could pick anything from "serif fonts" to "Steve Perrin's name in the credits".

IF we wanted to look at things logically, the I'd say we would have to go with picking those rules that have been every RQ/BRP game system. That would leave us with the attributes (if you count PENDRAGON drop INT), skill based task resolution, common die roll for conducting actions, and so forth (i.e. rsistance table, base skill percentages, classless, and oh yeah, skill checks ). PENDRAGON does a few things differently, such as D20 instead of D100, and no resistance chart (but an opposed resolution system that mirrors the resitance chart to some degree, and in some ways improves upon it).

[badcat]

Check. Weird, now that you mention Pendragon, I loved King Arthur when I was growing up but never liked the rpg. It just never looked like a game I would enjoy playing, or it never seemed like any sort of cousin to BRP...

My own criteria for defining BRP was stated back at the beginning of this thread, anyway. Short and sweet.

[Sverre]

Originally Posted by Atgxtg

PENDRAGON does a few things differently, such as D20 instead of D100, and no resistance chart (but an opposed resolution system that mirrors the resitance chart to some degree, and in some ways improves upon it).

Pendragon uses a d20 for skill resolution? It's a d20 game? What makes it count in with BRP then? (d20 should only be used for hit locations!!! and maybe some badass club wielded by a huge great-troll! )

Triff.

[Enpeze]

I agree to some extent. BRP without d100? Well maybe we can say that Pendragon is a game with many BRP elements, but not BRP as such.

I am also not sure about the litte subgames in Pendragon. Like the passions or the province building rules. This is hardly BRP. But I dont know it for sure because I never played it (high Fantasy is not interesting enough for me). Was not G. Stafford the author?

[Atgxtg]

And now for something completely different, or the Pendragon threadjack.

Badcat,
You should give Pendragon a look. It is actually a vey good game, and has a few nice tweaks to the RQ system. I ran the game for years, to the point where I sort of had to beg the group to let me run something else. One really neat thing about the game was the time scale. With an average of one year per adventure, you got to play your character's sons as the campaign went on. It was sort of nice to know that when your character died, his magic sword would pass on to his son.
The game plays very BRPish. Combat is probably closer to Stormbringer than RQ, with major wounds and such. Damage isn't based on weapon but by STR+SIZ and then modifed by weapon (sort of reverse RQ). Each character has a damage stat (in d6) equal to (STR+SIZ)/6. Then you add in the special effects for weapon type. Daggers do 1d6 less damage, greatswords +1d6 more, axes offset shields somewhat, and so on.

If you like King Arthur, then definitely check out the Great Pendragon Campaign book. An over 400 page supplement for Pendragon that covers the timeline and gives you enough material to run a campaign.




Sverre
Pendragon uses a d20, but is not a d20 game in the "d20" sense. Although much of the design of d20 skill system was inspired" (swiped) by Pendragon and RQ (look at Jon Tweet comments about RuneQuest).

Basically think RQ2, with it' s 5% skill increments. That is sort of the basis for Pendragon. Roll d20 under your skill and see if you succeed or not. The game even had check boxes to improve skills like RQ.



Where Pendragon differs is in how it handles opposed rolls and criticals. Rather than a resistance chart, it is roll against ability. If both succeed, high roll wins. Combat is handled this way too, with the winner inflicting damage on the loser (the loser gets his shield protection if he rolled under his skill).

Criticals were handled by rolling your skill exactly. A critical was considered to be a result of "20" and so wold beat a non critical. Very high scores (over 20) would add the amount over 20 to the roll, thereby greatly increasing the chances of a critical.

Very different from D20, AC, levels and all that.


Enpeze,
I don't consider Pendragon to be BRP, but definitely BRP related. IMO closer to BRP than MRQ. But that's my slant.

The Personality traits and Passion rules are also BRP related, but you have to hunt for the link. It hadl appeared in other RQ products, such as Thieves World, but using D100 instead of D20.

Pendragon is most definitely Greg's baby. So much so that he just wrote a new edition last year. The Great Pendragon Campaign book is a fantastic supplement (think RQ campaign pack, but set to run for over 75 game years). In fact, this book was my RPG pick me up after MRQ. My local RPG shop owner was pleased that I liked it (I was quite happy forking over the $50 for this puppy. As a read alone is is something. Dozens of characters, scenarios, maps, history, equipment, cotes of arms, you name it).


Okay, threadjack complete......(???)

[Sorloc]

Nope, I'm going to weigh in on this one also...

I own both Pendragon and the game that kept Pendragon from EVER getting any play around our group - Chivalry & Sorcery.

FGU (Fantasy Games Unlimited) was the Mohammad Ali of game companies. They put out soe seriously kickass games.
Wild West, Bushido, Aftermath, Flashing Blades, Privateers & Gentlemen, Space Opera, and Villains & Vigilantes (proof that not even Babe Ruth can hit them out of the park every time).

Atlas Games owns C&S now, and it's as good as it ever was. The skill system is wicked hard to get a grasp on, but it works. My favorite part about the system is it treats missile attacks correctly - the damage is based on the projectile (arrow, bolt, dart, bullet, etc.) and the RANGE is based on the delivery system (shortbow, longbow, composite bow, pistol, rifle, etc.) If you're at less than maximum range, you do get a bonus to damage, so higher-powered delivery systems will do slightly more damage at close range than lower powered delivery systems with the same projectile.

I always hold up RQ's combat system as one of the best I've ever played, but C&S got it right with missile weapons.

[Magistus]

Originally Posted by Sorloc

FGU (Fantasy Games Unlimited) was the Mohammad Ali of game companies. They put out soe seriously kickass games.
Wild West, Bushido, Aftermath, Flashing Blades, Privateers & Gentlemen, Space Opera, and Villains & Vigilantes (proof that not even Babe Ruth can hit them out of the park every time).

You forgot what I consider their best game ever Daredevils.

[badcat]

Swordbearer. That was FGU, wasn't it?

[Atgxtg]

Originally Posted by badcat

Swordbearer. That was FGU, wasn't it?

Yup. I still have that. It was also somewhat BRP derrived, although it had a horrible flaw with the parry rules (get your weapon speed up high enough and you don't need to make the parry roll).

[Atgxtg]

Sorloc,
I have and ran C&S (the original red book edition, no less with the 4 point text). While not a bad game, it was level based, and had increasing HP. Character creation was a nightmare. THe game used a d20 scale for stats (there were around a dozen or so), and players rolled a D20 for those stats. As bonuses and penalties for stats were large, it usually meant that any character tended to have at least one stat that was so low as to be crippling. I.e> mute, bedridden, pyschotic, etc. I think less than 10% of PCs managed to get through character generetion with something that was playable. My all time favorite was the character that someone rolled up with 20+ Str & DEX, great social status, horoscope the works. Everyone was getting excited about the guy, and he was looking like they were gonna adventure with their very own William Marshall, until we got to PYSCHE and it turned out that he was homicidal (the high social status meant more inbreeding), and went on rampages. I think he triggers were darkness and blood.

Pendragon also gave a lot more info on actually role-playing in a fedual setting, although C&S certainly did more towards that end then any other RPG that had come out prior to it.

Come to think of It, I think I have (or had) pretty much every one of the FGU games you mentioned. Flashing ABlades was probably my favorite of the lot. It even went out well with the local D&D players.

THere were quite a few little companies that used rto produce good stuff back then. Most still exist in some sort of undead state. Judges Guild being another one, and one that would be of interest to RQ/BRP fans.