Release Date?

[Jack Tar]

Yes indeed. If I knew it was not to be released until the end of Feb. I'd buy a ARC right now, but if it's outthe end of Jan. I wouldn't. It would be nice to know *approximately* when it will be available in stores.

[Jason Durall]

Originally Posted by Lord Twig

One thing that confused me was the Opposed Skill Rolls. There is the default method, then there are several optional methods. The first optional method seems to be identical to the default method. Unless I missed something? Or maybe it just needs to be clarified?

It probably needs a bit of clarification, but to clarify here:

- The default system compares the quality of results, no matter how the dice happened to land. So a normal success is equal to a normal success, but both are inferior to a special or critical success. For example, two characters with skills of 50% make rolls of 11 and 48 and both achieve normal successes. These are considered "equal." If they'd rolled a 03 and a 10, they'd both be tied for special successes.

- The first optional system says look at the actual # rolled and use it as a means of comparing one "equivalent" success to another. Using the same example as above, the one who rolled the 48 is the winner. This is similar to Pendragon's system. The variant suggested at the end of that option is to flip it, so the 11 is the clear winner with only 10 percentile points away from the best possible roll, while the 49 is 48 away from a 01.

Does that make sense?

[Nightshade]

Originally Posted by Jack Tar

Yes indeed. If I knew it was not to be released until the end of Feb. I'd buy a ARC right now, but if it's outthe end of Jan. I wouldn't. It would be nice to know *approximately* when it will be available in stores.

Given that they're still doing the final edit, and with what I know of production times in the game industry, I'd be utterly astonished if its out sooner than the end of February.

[TrippyHippy]

Looking at the release dates of the other titles on this site, I'd estimate March as being a decent approximation.

But I'm not sure that Chaosium themselves know precisely when the game is going to be fully ready yet. I gues the answer is "it'll be ready....when it's ready!". And they'll let us know as soon as that is. Remember that they are a small publishing house.

[badcat]

I greatly fear that I am running out of patience.

Also, I don't think much of the '0 edition' thing, to tell the truth. It seems too much like a WOTC or Mongoose trick. Just the way I feel.

[Lord Twig]

Originally Posted by badcat

I greatly fear that I am running out of patience.

Also, I don't think much of the '0 edition' thing, to tell the truth. It seems too much like a WOTC or Mongoose trick. Just the way I feel.

Oh no, certainly not a Mongoose trick. If it were a Mongoose trick they would sell a '0 edition' then sell it again completely disregarding any corrections brought up by the people who bought it. That certainly does not seem to be the case here.

[Lord Twig]

Originally Posted by Jason Durall

It probably needs a bit of clarification, but to clarify here:

- The default system compares the quality of results, no matter how the dice happened to land. So a normal success is equal to a normal success, but both are inferior to a special or critical success. For example, two characters with skills of 50% make rolls of 11 and 48 and both achieve normal successes. These are considered "equal." If they'd rolled a 03 and a 10, they'd both be tied for special successes.

- The first optional system says look at the actual # rolled and use it as a means of comparing one "equivalent" success to another. Using the same example as above, the one who rolled the 48 is the winner. This is similar to Pendragon's system. The variant suggested at the end of that option is to flip it, so the 11 is the clear winner with only 10 percentile points away from the best possible roll, while the 49 is 48 away from a 01.

Does that make sense?

Sorry, still confused. P174 it says that whoever has the higher degree of success wins, but that if the loser succeeded in his roll that he can reduce the winner's success by one level for each level of success that he achieved. Then it says that if "both parties achieve the same degree of success, the higher die roll wins the contest, giving advantage to characters with higher skill ratings"

So let me see if I can work this out...

In the default rules, if player A gets a Special success and B gets a normal success then A wins, but is downgraded by B regular success so A just succeeds and doesn't get a special success. But if A and B both got a simple success then whoever rolled highest would win. Does that mean that the loser could still downgrade his success to a failure?

In the first optional rule, if player A rolls a Special success and B rolls a regular success, then A wins and that's it. But if A rolled a regular success also, then the highest roll wins. Also, if both A and B rolled a Special success then the highest roll would win.

So I guess they are different.

Honestly I will probably use the first optional rule with the alternate suggested at the bottom that you subtract the roll from the character's chance to succeed, in order to maintain the "roll low" paradigm as you suggest. I know it would not be popular with a lot of people, but it is what my group is used to using and I am glad it is in there as a variant.

Edit: Kinda thinking I should have put this in the "Typos, Errata , Corrections, and Clarifications" thread, but it wasn't around when I made the original comment.

[badcat]

I reckon you're right about Mongoose; I'm feeling grumpy but trying not to.

There is the possibility of not using opposed rolls. I usually do a pass/fail, then a second roll on a fail. If a thief succeeds on a stealth roll, fine, if he fails then give the guard a perception roll to percieve the mistake. The stealth roll can be modified according to circumstances...a rainy night, twigs littering the floor/ground, a clear moonlit night, an arranged distraction by the thiefs' buddies, etc. It works just fine. I like rules that keep the action going, these opposed rolls are like speed bumps.

[Atgxtg]

Originally Posted by Lord Twig

So let me see if I can work this out...

In the default rules, if player A gets a Special success and B gets a normal success then A wins, but is downgraded by B regular success so A just succeeds and doesn't get a special success. But if A and B both got a simple success then whoever rolled highest would win. Does that mean that the loser could still downgrade his success to a failure?

In the first optional rule, if player A rolls a Special success and B rolls a regular success, then A wins and that's it. But if A rolled a regular success also, then the highest roll wins. Also, if both A and B rolled a Special success then the highest roll would win.

So I guess they are different.

One method that I've tired is going with the greater degree of success winning, but the low roll wins on tied success levels. That keeps the low roll feel and seems to be fair, since the increased special chance and success range.

For instance if a chanracter with 40% opposes a character with 70%, they will only both roll a normal success 17.92% of the time (32x56). The advantage that the 30% character has when both roll a success (about 64/36) is offset by losing all the tests when both roll between 40-70.

[Rurik]

Originally Posted by Atgxtg

One method that I've tired is going with the greater degree of success winning, but the low roll wins on tied success levels. That keeps the low roll feel and seems to be fair, since the increased special chance and success range.

For instance if a chanracter with 40% opposes a character with 70%, they will only both roll a normal success 17.92% of the time (32x56). The advantage that the 30% character has when both roll a success (about 64/36) is offset by losing all the tests when both roll between 40-70.

This was argued at length at the MRQ boards back in the early days, and the general concensus is that going with low roll wins is just favorable to the lower skilled character. There are formulas and calculators and still some smoldering embers from the great math wars (which included halving as well as opposed rolls - thank god BRP has no halving).

The main difference is what happens when the lowe skilled character rolls a success and the higher skilled character rolls between the skills. Cconsider a skill of 50% vs a skill of 90%:

If using high roll wins, and the 50 skill rolls a success, a roll of 51 to 90 for the 90% is a win for the 90% skill. But when using low roll wins, the 90% skill cannot win if his roll is between 51 and 90.

Not very fair to the master.