Superhero games

[kpmcdona]

As it happens, I am going to play in a SuperWorld game this very night! Over the years my game group has played lots of different supers games - Champions, Wild Talents, Marvel, DC, etc. We still keep going back to SuperWorld, though.

Granted, it is hard to write SW versions of published comic-book heroes. That isn't what we do, though. All of our games (and we have run dozens of them) are unique settings. The GM describes the theme and then turns the players loose on the rules. The thing that I love about SuperWorld is that it is a fairly thin set of rules, easily mastered, that you can do all manner of interesting things with.

In fact, my interest in the new BRP is as an update of SuperWorld! From what folks have been saying, it looks like the new version may be a step *backwards* from SuperWorld. Is this true? I was really hoping for the old rules to be cleaned up and maybe expanded a little. After all, even including the companion SuperWorld didn't have a very large page count.

I guess what I am asking is this: How does the new BRP compare to SuperWorld? Should I give it a try or just stick with my old, torn, yellowed copies of the game?

~Kevin McD

[Nightshade]

Originally Posted by kpmcdona

In fact, my interest in the new BRP is as an update of SuperWorld! From what folks have been saying, it looks like the new version may be a step *backwards* from SuperWorld. Is this true? I was really hoping for the old rules to be cleaned up and maybe expanded a little. After all, even including the companion SuperWorld didn't have a very large page count.

Since Jason based it on the Worlds of Wonder version of Superworld, in a sense it can't help but be a step backwards; those rules simply weren't as sophisticated as the standalone game, let alone the standalone plus its companion.

[Atgxtg]

Originally Posted by Nightshade

Since Jason based it on the Worlds of Wonder version of Superworld, in a sense it can't help but be a step backwards; those rules simply weren't as sophisticated as the standalone game, let alone the standalone plus its companion.

That seems to be true with BRO in general. Since it has "gone back" and drew inspiration from WoW, SB and other early Chaosium products (early as in Pre-RQ3/Superworld), it is a step back in several ways.

We get a lot of the perks of the simplicity of the earlier system, but loose some of the goodies we got with more detailed systems like RQ3 and Superworld.

[Nightshade]

Originally Posted by Atgxtg

That seems to be true with BRO in general. Since it has "gone back" and drew inspiration from WoW, SB and other early Chaosium products (early as in Pre-RQ3/Superworld), it is a step back in several ways.

We get a lot of the perks of the simplicity of the earlier system, but loose some of the goodies we got with more detailed systems like RQ3 and Superworld.

Though to be fair, he's tried to leave some of those goodies available as optional rules; hit locations and RQ3 style skill base modifiers come to mind.

[Atgxtg]

Originally Posted by Nightshade

Though to be fair, he's tried to leave some of those goodies available as optional rules; hit locations and RQ3 style skill base modifiers come to mind.

Oh yeah there is a lot of mix and match. But ultimately he had to make some decisions between things, like which set of weapon damages to use, and each decision has other effects. For instance, RQ2 SIZ, RQ3 SIZ, SB1 SIZ, CoC SIZ, Wow SIZ or Superworld (Boxed set) SIZ? No matter how much he might want to appeal to everyone, picking one option is going to close some doors, and close others.

For instance using the RQ3 damage bonus system with WoW Superworld type STR costs means lower strength heroes means that if you want supers to be able to smash tanks you have to give the tanks lower APs, since the damage is lower. For isntace a Character with STR 50 SIZ 10 in BRP would do 1D3+3D6 vs. 6D6 in Superworld.

[ORtrail]

Originally Posted by Nightshade

Since Jason based it on the Worlds of Wonder version of Superworld, in a sense it can't help but be a step backwards; those rules simply weren't as sophisticated as the standalone game, let alone the standalone plus its companion.

Yeah, but if you love to add house rules, and have the designers notes from WoW Superworld (Different Worlds #23)?

I'd rather add to taste, as it were, then have to cut away at a game system to be comfortable with it. Simplicity is a big plus to me.

Although much of that depends on the game world, as a Supers game should feel quite a bit different than a gritty game of Spartans battling Persian invasions (where the focus is on man-to-man combat and specific wounds verus the flash and "comic physics" of a supers game).

Not having seen the new book yet, I think of it as a starting point for BRP games, though each GM will alter as he/she sees fit. At least with a common starting point, any BRP player should be comfortable playing whatever campaign fairly quickly. Right?

[The Tweaker]

Originally Posted by ORtrail

I'd rather add to taste, as it were, then have to cut away at a game system to be comfortable with it. Simplicity is a big plus to me.

(. . .)

Not having seen the new book yet, I think of it as a starting point for BRP games, though each GM will alter as he/she sees fit. At least with a common starting point, any BRP player should be comfortable playing whatever campaign fairly quickly. Right?

You are absolutely right . We are of the same mind here.

With all due respect to everyone, I find all these criticisms levelled at the new BRP by old-time fans who think they know better a bit tiresome. It seems that, for them, each and every design decision which had to be taken in order to get a workable basic ruleset which can serve as a starting point for new players was either wrong or at least questionable, specially if it does not resemble their preferred Runequest edition. Unfortunately, most of BRP's potential new fans (including me, even though I used to GM CoC ages ago) don't have access to the years-old or out of print materials most of you often refer to, nor have a highly-customized version of the system at hand.

[Nightshade]

Originally Posted by Atgxtg

Oh yeah there is a lot of mix and match. But ultimately he had to make some decisions between things, like which set of weapon damages to use, and each decision has other effects. For instance, RQ2 SIZ, RQ3 SIZ, SB1 SIZ, CoC SIZ, Wow SIZ or Superworld (Boxed set) SIZ? No matter how much he might want to appeal to everyone, picking one option is going to close some doors, and close others.

Sure. Couldn't be helped.

[Nightshade]

Originally Posted by ORtrail

Yeah, but if you love to add house rules, and have the designers notes from WoW Superworld (Different Worlds #23)?

I'd rather add to taste, as it were, then have to cut away at a game system to be comfortable with it. Simplicity is a big plus to me.

On the other hand, adding house rules that properly integrate with extent structures is not always trivial; having been involved in the Superworld evolution as a playtester and commenter, even the designer has false starts and things that need to be reworked. So I'd rather have things that I don't need than have to add too much I do, because experience over the years has taught me that barring playtesting, you can pretty much _count_ on the law of unintended consequences coming up with the latter.

[Nightshade]

Originally Posted by The Tweaker

With all due respect to everyone, I find all these criticisms levelled at the new BRP by old-time fans who think they know better a bit tiresome. It seems that,

While I will admit there's some grognardism present here, I think you need to separate criticism of individual mechanics based on specific consequences of same, which is no different than criticism of individual mechanics in a brand new game, from "Its not what I'm used to." Not all the critques going on here are of the latter stripe.