Superhero games

[Kloster]

Originally Posted by Kloster

...
All in all, Superworld was probably the worse case of sell for Chaosium in France.
...

The figures I managed to get back were (several years ago, about the time when Coc 5.5 was published), when combining US imports, british (Games Workshop) imports and french language publishing:

- Worlds of Wonder : Below 50 (Never published in french).
- Superworld : Around 30 (Never published in french).
- ElfQuest : Around 200 (Never published in french).
- Ringworld : Unknown figures (Never published in french).
- RQII : Around 2000 (Never published in french).
- RQIII: Around 15000 (Published in french).
- SB1 : Around 30000 (Published in french)
- SB>1 : Unknown figures (Never published in french).
- Hawkmoon Around 10000 (Published in French)
- CoC : Over 80000 (Not counting 5.5). 2nd best selling RPG ever.
- BaSIC. : (WoW BRP updated) Over 50000 (Published in french).

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

[TriOpticon]

Originally Posted by Kloster

The figures I managed to get back were (several years ago, about the time when Coc 5.5 was published), when combining US imports, british (Games Workshop) imports and french language publishing:

- Worlds of Wonder : Below 50 (Never published in french).
- Superworld : Around 30 (Never published in french).

What does 30 represent? 30 games, 30000 games or something else?

All these posts bring back memories of playing V&V, Champions and SuperWorld. I definitely would like to give a superhero resource a try for BRP once it comes out. I guess I'll have to wait till that happens, though. I would hope Chaosium is looking into this genre plus others for future expansions/supplements.

[Kloster]

Originally Posted by TriOpticon

What does 30 represent? 30 games, 30000 games or something else?

All these posts bring back memories of playing V&V, Champions and SuperWorld. I definitely would like to give a superhero resource a try for BRP once it comes out. I guess I'll have to wait till that happens, though. I would hope Chaosium is looking into this genre plus others for future expansions/supplements.

30 means 30 games. CoC was over 80000 games.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

[Atgxtg]

Interesting.

Your figures seem to show not only how important it is to provide the game in the local language (no surprise), but just how useful a literary tie in is.

[Kloster]

Originally Posted by Atgxtg

Interesting.

Your figures seem to show not only how important it is to provide the game in the local language (no surprise), but just how useful a literary tie in is.

No surprise!

It is also because, except for CoC, they were nicer and much cheaper than US or UK ones. Best example was RQIII (Between 450 and 550 FF for AH version, 249 FF for Oriflam french one).

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

[NickMiddleton]

Originally Posted by Kloster

The figures I managed to get back were (several years ago, about the time when Coc 5.5 was published), when combining US imports, british (Games Workshop) imports and french language publishing:

- Worlds of Wonder : Below 50 (Never published in french).
- Superworld : Around 30 (Never published in french).
- ElfQuest : Around 200 (Never published in french).
- Ringworld : Unknown figures (Never published in french).
- RQII : Around 2000 (Never published in french).
- RQIII: Around 15000 (Published in french).
- SB1 : Around 30000 (Published in french)
- SB>1 : Unknown figures (Never published in french).
- Hawkmoon Around 10000 (Published in French)
- CoC : Over 80000 (Not counting 5.5). 2nd best selling RPG ever.
- BaSIC. : (WoW BRP updated) Over 50000 (Published in french).

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

Where exactly do these figures come from? And when? There's a dearth of reliable figures in the industry, so I'm intrigued to know what these numbers actually represent. This is sales in France, correct? Up to what date?

Cheers,

Nick Middleton

[Simlasa]

I was never much into mainstream superhero comics... but I've been a fan of plenty of superhero characters... like The Shadow and Doc Savage and the Green Hornet...

I've had a campaign idea for a while about a city with a collapsed infrastructure (based on parts of Detroit I've been to) that is full of pulp era vigilantes jockeying for power. Some have 'powerz' but none of them are close to the ridiculous extremes of Superman/Thor/Green Lantern... they team up into loose gangs... good vs. evil is relative to outlook... kind of a gangland setting with powers tossed in.

Regarding the powers the superhero comics seemed to have cinematic logic that altered the character's powers depending on the need of the story... in ways that wouldn't transfer in solidly quantifiable ways to any game system.
But I've been really interested in 'grittier' storylines and systems like Godlike and Wild Talents and some of the 'pulp' systems. Taking real world physics into account somewhat and making the heroes a lot more three dimensional as well... they can kill or be killed... can dwell in the gray areas.

[Atgxtg]

Originally Posted by Simlasa

I was never much into mainstream superhero comics... but I've been a fan of plenty of superhero characters... like The Shadow and Doc Savage and the Green Hornet...

I've had a campaign idea for a while about a city with a collapsed infrastructure (based on parts of Detroit I've been to) that is full of pulp era vigilantes jockeying for power. Some have 'powerz' but none of them are close to the ridiculous extremes of Superman/Thor/Green Lantern... they team up into loose gangs... good vs. evil is relative to outlook... kind of a gangland setting with powers tossed in.

Regarding the powers the superhero comics seemed to have cinematic logic that altered the character's powers depending on the need of the story... in ways that wouldn't transfer in solidly quantifiable ways to any game system.
But I've been really interested in 'grittier' storylines and systems like Godlike and Wild Talents and some of the 'pulp' systems. Taking real world physics into account somewhat and making the heroes a lot more three dimensional as well... they can kill or be killed... can dwell in the gray areas.

A couple of things.

First off Sprit of the Century is a pulp style game. One thing nice about it is that the game works with pulp logic, rather than the typical RPG dice and points style. Several other super RPGs do try to take "comic logi" into account. While some things do vary by writer as does all forms of cinematic stroytelling, there are a few consistiences-such as:

-Blunt weapons knock out/beat up/ sharp weapons kill
-Powerful hits send people flying
-It doesn't matter how far you fell as long as someone catches you before you reach the ground.
-If you are tougher than what you land on, fall hurt the ground, not you.
-If you are strong enough to lift something, you can do so, despite things like leverage, ground pressure, or structural strength.
-If you build it, it will be just the thing you need to defeat the next villain you come across.
-Everybody dies sometime, but supers, and their friends, family and enemies do not stay dead, unless their name is Ben Parker, Jor-El or Wayne (Parental figures don't do well, must be something about the target audience).


Secondly, a few RPGs have gone the real world physics route. Wildcards for instance. One example was a superstong hero jumping out in front of a speeding truck as per the comics. Rather than stopping the truck, the hero got sent flying, and learned a lesson about momentum and leverage.
In the comics a superhero might be able to lift a battleship, but in the real world he would probably break the ship, or drive the character into the ground like a tent peg. Likewise, catching a falling person a few feet before the hit the ground just means that they fall into the hero and take damage rather than falling onto concrete.

[Simlasa]

'Pulp' is a pretty open description... not really a genre or a style, though some people nowadays assume it to mean a high-flying, gonzo, kitchen sink of tomfoolery...
If I wanted to play cinematic games Spirit Of The Century seems to be the darling-boy for that right now over on RPG.net...
But some folks (like me) don't like cinematics...
I don't want 4 color superhero games but do like the idea of gritty games centered on vigilantes with odd powers... some of them might wear spandex but that won't keep them from being turned into pulp.

BRP seems well suited to that sort of thing.

[drohem]

I might get stoned for saying this, but...

My group is currently playing a World War II Supers campaign using the net PDF Deeds Not Words for the d20 system. We are playing the gritty campaign mode with mulitple GMs. Each GM runs a one-shot adventure with his own PC doing some support role away from the main group. We started in late 1936 and are currently in spring of 1938.

I just ran an adventure where the group entered Austria via Switzerland about a week after it was annexed by Germany to rescue a Polish-Jew scientist who specialized in genetics and mutants and get him across the Danube River into Czechoslovakia.

Thus far we have had a really mix of fights and PC's. Some of the PCs are bruisers (Experiment and Supernatural Origins) and some are regular people (Baseline Origin).

We originally started a normal supers campaign with the d20 net PDF Powers Overwhelming, but quickly called it Powers Overbroken and abandoned those rules in favor of Deeds Not Words.

There are two supplements for Deeds Not Words: Laying the Smack Down and Bold Costumes, Black Hearts.

Supers is the least favorite genre for me (literary and RPG). However, I found that the combination of World War II, gritty campaign mode, and mulitple GMs have really sparked my interest in this type of Supers campaign.

Anyway, if you're looking for a decent supers rules set, and don't mind d20 system, then you should check out Deeds Not Words.