Spellcasting tactics

[Nightshade]

Originally Posted by Kloster

I agree it favors dexterity.

The advantages I see in the declaration phase are:
1 - Simplicity. This is when the GM notes his SR sheet that he has then to follow. The round is then easy to drive.

Actually, I find this _more_ complex, since I now have to try and remember what every PC and NPC is doing across the course of the round _and_ track their strike ranks. As it was, I found the fact RQ3 interwove movement into strike ranks almost impossible to keep track of for NPCs.

2 - Force the player to think fast. The resolution of the 1st strike ranks takes much more time than the timeframe they represent, and if you react along this time, you have too much time to think and to prepare. With the declaration phase, everybody has to think fast.

I'd argue my form forces this even more, since they don't get the luxury of knowing what the lower Dexterity types are doing until they see it start.That means you have to decide whether what you started to do was a good idea rather than being able to plan it out while you listen to declaration going around.

[Atgxtg]

Nitghtshade,

I think the major reason for the differences between you experiences and our comes from dropping the declation phase.

By the book, skipping that phase slows your fights down, and makes spellcasting a LOT slower, since any action is going to get a 3SR penalty once the fight starts.

Consider: Let's say you have a guy who got hit on SR8 and now wants to cast a heal 2.

1) No Declatarion Phase: You pay the 3SR penalty, and then the spell goes off next turn after his DEX SR+3. So for an anverage character, that would be on SR6.

2) Declation Phase: He waits until the end of the turn, then casts the spell on his DEX SR+2, going off on SR 5.

Or if you want to cast bladesharp 3 before attacking.

1) No Declaration Phase: Cast at DEXSR+3 or SR 6, then prep for 3 SR, ttack 7SR later or SR 6 on the next turn.

2) Declaration Phase: Cast on DEXSR+3, or SR 6, attack 3 SR later than normal (SR7), or at SR 10, this turn.


I think that explains both the differences in how battle magic worked, AND the differences over fatigue. With 3SR penalties left and right, you fights were probably 3-4 rounds longer that ours, and you spellcasters and missile troops correspondingly slower to react.

[Trifletraxor]

Originally Posted by Kloster

For us, it was more:
GM: Declaration phase. What are you doing?
Player 1: Erh, Ehm,...
GM (10 sec later): OK, nothing. Player 2 please.
Player 2: But, ehm,...
GM (10 sec later): OK, nothing. This NPC does that. Player 3 please.
...

At the 3rd fight, everybody knew to be ready when asked to tell what his character was doing.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

Wow! That's impressive. I'm not sure I would be able to pull of something like that with my players though.

SGL.

[Nightshade]

Originally Posted by Atgxtg

Nitghtshade,

I think the major reason for the differences between you experiences and our comes from dropping the declation phase.

I think you're still overestimating the impact on this, A; in practice, it mattered in the first round of combat, and occasionally for complex interactions of archery and spellcasting, but other than that, people just prepped for spellcasting on the following round during the deadspace in strike ranks that usually occured after an attack on prior one. So I don't think this could have had that much impact there.

[Kloster]

Originally Posted by Trifletraxor

Wow! That's impressive. I'm not sure I would be able to pull of something like that with my players though.

SGL.

I lied a little. At the 3rd fight, some players still have inactive characters.
But for most of us, it worked, and after the 2nd session, only 1 player was still not ready (he was the guy who, after 2 years of play, still didn't understood how to cast his bladesharp 2).

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

[Atgxtg]

Originally Posted by Nightshade

Well, it doesn't hurt that you don't have much of the cross-system partisanship that crops up on most gaming boards. And possibly the old-fart tendencies here don't hurt either.

Nah, it just some people are decent people and some are jerks. One of may favorite boards is for Star Trek, and covers at least 4 different Trek based RPG, yet it is usually one of the most cilvil board's I've seen (it was the aforementioned first board), and we can actually debate topics rather than each other's lineage.

Then again, perhaps it is due to the site being deciated to a show where everybody can generally get along with each other. I suppose if there was a Neo-Nazi RPG site, the members wouldn't be quite so open minded and tolerant.

We do have some BRP/MRQ conflict here, but its mostly in the "I prefer X over Y because" type of discussion.

But overall, you losers are alright.

[Kloster]

Originally Posted by Nightshade

I think you're still overestimating the impact on this, A; in practice, it mattered in the first round of combat, and occasionally for complex interactions of archery and spellcasting, but other than that, people just prepped for spellcasting on the following round during the deadspace in strike ranks that usually occured after an attack on prior one. So I don't think this could have had that much impact there.

I think you are underestimating it.
As you tell, it is very important during "complex interactions of archery and spellcasting", but those interactions are not rare.
And it does not affect only the 1st round, because actions that carry over from 1 round to the other one replace the action of the new round.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

[Atgxtg]

I agree with Koslter. Basically, I think the difference between having a declaration phase and not makes or breaks the tactics of the game. That is why I think Nightshade has a very different take on things than we do.

For instance, without a declaration phase, any roundthat a character moves will prevent them from prepping a spell. With the declaration phase, prepping wasn't necessary. THe same with change form missile to melee or spell to melee and back.

I'd go so far as to say that Nightshade's distaste of disrupt as a cheap tactic stems from this. With a declaration phase it is almost impossible to stop a spell with a disrupt unless the spell was very slow/powerful or the disrupter had a very high DEX. Without a declaration phase, it is easy, as all you need to do is wait for someone to start casting and then switch to a disrupt. As both combantats will suffer a 3SR penalty, the disrupt has the edge.

[frogspawner]

Originally Posted by Atgxtg

I agree with Koslter.

Who's Koslter?

[frogspawner]

I prefer 'No Declaration' over 'Declaration' because... it makes players decide quicker (and spares me the embarrassment, with my extreme age and failing faculties, of not remembering what someone said they'd do 10 seconds ago). Oh, and, it's simpler. Does this mean I agree with anybody?
(Perhaps I haven't been paying enough attention - could someone tell me what the new BRP default system is, please?)