Spare arms

[Nightshade]

Originally Posted by Kloster

By the way, an average dark troll (+1D6 DB) with bludgeon 1 on his Maul (2D8) destroy a round shield (12 AP) in 3 shots. Not very long to obtain, especially if the target is parrying with the abovementioned shield.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

We rarerly, rarely saw anyone use two handed weapons, simply because shields were so attractive. And I have to note your statement is only true if he's _attacking_ the shield, for which I refer you to my other comments. If you're doing an average of 13.5 damage, most people would rather just wait for the target to fail his parry, since at the level where a Bludgeon 1 was all that was involved, it'd probably come up in a round or two, and at that point whatever location got hit was likely in for disablement, armor or not.

[Nightshade]

Originally Posted by Kloster

If your weapon is a 1H weapon, you can't attack and parry with it in the same round. If I parry with my sword because I don't have a backup parrying weapon, I have to attack with my fists.
And a dagger is better than nothing.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

Sorry, I'd forgotten we houseruled that one promptly, because its, basically, stupid. It means you can't use the rapier as a fencing weapon, for example. The rules themselves pretty much show the stupidity when you can attack and parry with a greatsword in the same round, but not a shortsword. Ask yourself which of those is faster to bring around after an attack some time...

[Nightshade]

Originally Posted by Kloster

That's why I carry a backup weapon.

And spear users usually did too, but most people just didn't feel like dealing with the extra encumberance to have the opportunity to do a bit extra damage at the price of likely losing your weapon. Especially since there was no guarentee most of the damage wouldn't just be sucked up by the opponents parry.

[Kloster]

Originally Posted by Nightshade

Sorry, I'd forgotten we houseruled that one promptly, because its, basically, stupid. It means you can't use the rapier as a fencing weapon, for example. The rules themselves pretty much show the stupidity when you can attack and parry with a greatsword in the same round, but not a shortsword. Ask yourself which of those is faster to bring around after an attack some time...

As an ex fencer (and I have done some sca like fights also), I can tell that what you say on the rapier is mostly true, but on the shortsword mostly false.
If you bring your weapon on the way of an incoming one, it is not directed anymore towards your adversary, and it is quite slow to bring back. And even with the rapier, you loose time. That's why most duelists were using parrying devices (Main Gauches, Lanterns, rolled up clothes) or were dodging.
What you descript is completely true for foil combat.


I would solve the problem by allowing the rapier to do it (like 2h weapons), but not the other weapons.


Runequestement votre,

Kloster

[Kloster]

Originally Posted by Nightshade

And spear users usually did too, but most people just didn't feel like dealing with the extra encumberance to have the opportunity to do a bit extra damage at the price of likely losing your weapon. Especially since there was no guarentee most of the damage wouldn't just be sucked up by the opponents parry.

Different experiences. I don't say that what you say is false,but I have seen a lot of impaling strikes with swords. In fact, in a group, I was the only one to switch from one tactic to the other. The other players were always trying to impale.


Runequestement votre,

Kloster

[Nightshade]

Originally Posted by Kloster

As an ex fencer (and I have done some sca like fights also), I can tell that what you say on the rapier is mostly true, but on the shortsword mostly false.
If you bring your weapon on the way of an incoming one, it is not directed anymore towards your adversary, and it is quite slow to bring back. And even

I'm sorry, but I've used shortswords in martial arts training, and its really not; the parry/attack process is of a piece, and easily takes place in less than the 10-12 seconds of an RQ melee. With all weapon parries there's an instant of vulnerability when you attack where its harder to parry, but that's part of what the whole parry roll represents as far as I can tell, since its just as true with a two handed weapon or an offhand weapon too.

I would solve the problem by allowing the rapier to do it (like 2h weapons), but not the other weapons.

While there may be weapons where its a defensible rule, I don't think they're nearly as broad a group as you're putting it to be; and there are two handed weapons its more true of than it is with most of the more handy one-handed one. I'll state flatly that any rule that says its easier to parry with a maul while attacking than with a shortsword is flatly incorrect.

[Nightshade]

Originally Posted by Kloster

Different experiences. I don't say that what you say is false,but I have seen a lot of impaling strikes with swords. In fact, in a group, I was the only one to switch from one tactic to the other. The other players were always trying to impale.

I suspect that's why you think spare weapons are so necessary, though; if you're not addicted to that usage, or otherwise focus on impaling melee weapons, its not nearly as necessary to carry more than one backup.

[Kloster]

Originally Posted by Nightshade

I suspect that's why you think spare weapons are so necessary, though; if you're not addicted to that usage, or otherwise focus on impaling melee weapons, its not nearly as necessary to carry more than one backup.

I have explained that the locked impale is not the only occasion I had to loose my weapon. Disarming, striking of the weapon and fumbles are the others. Perhaps am I unlucky, perhaps do I have a GM that use a lot of strange tactics (I do also, so I don't complain), perhaps am I wrong.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

[Kloster]

Originally Posted by Nightshade

...
While there may be weapons where its a defensible rule, I don't think they're nearly as broad a group as you're putting it to be; and there are two handed weapons its more true of than it is with most of the more handy one-handed one. I'll state flatly that any rule that says its easier to parry with a maul while attacking than with a shortsword is flatly incorrect.

I'm not putting a broad category. I'm proposing the rapier, which is a single weapon. The 2h rule is ... in the rules. I agree with you this one is stupid and present (in my mind) to give a little playability to the 2h weapons.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

[Kloster]

Originally Posted by Nightshade

I'm sorry, but I've used shortswords in martial arts training, and its really not; the parry/attack process is of a piece, and easily takes place in less than the 10-12 seconds of an RQ melee. With all weapon parries there's an instant of vulnerability when you attack where its harder to parry, but that's part of what the whole parry roll represents as far as I can tell, since its just as true with a two handed weapon or an offhand weapon too.
...

It is still slower than having a dedicated parrying device.
And the 12 sec MR is part of the conceptualization of combat of BRP (and all RPG. In ADD, a MR is 1 mn, IIRC).

Runequestement votre,

Kloster