WFRP Style Fate points in BRP?

[Atgxtg]

Originally Posted by Nightshade

True. It tends to become more pronounced with guns however, as they're functions end up being bunched up a lot more than melee weapons. People will carry a shortsword as a backup if they carry a broadsword, because they don't want the encumberance of carrying two when they don't use the backup that much, or just because they lack the Strength. With handguns, they're going to migrate to the best one in terms of damage and ammo capacity (and in games that pay attention to it, accuracy) and that's about that; if there are Strength minimums they may use the best one within their Strength category, and that's about it.

No really. Historically you almost never saw someone carrying a "backup" sword. Generally weapons didn't break as opten as in RQ2. THat's why I prefer RQ3's AP ratings. Actually breaking a sword requires either a lot of abuse or a good vice.



[/quote]
What I'm suggesting I guess is that getting into too much detail is, in practice, sort of pointless here. Among melee weapons there's at least some tradeoffs that can make people do some variation (at least once you're dealing with the whole impale/slash/bash business) but its not a coincidence that you pretty much have three sizes of sword in most versions of the game and that's it, because if you go much past that you have exactly the same problem; one or more never gets used except by the purists. With the limited number of traits that will be visible to a revolver in BRP, I'd have to assume _most_ of them would never get used.[/quote]


Actually just a few traits can make all the difference. For example the Bond BRP RPG uses 11 numbers to rate most guns, and it covers the various weapons rather well.


Just by adding a Concealment and Draw modifers for BRP Old West I added something else to the mix besides damage, ammo, and range.


In the real world, choose a firearm is really about making trade-offs. Generally, the more you stress one trait, the more you pay for it in others. For example, if you want the ultimate in damage potential, you could get something like the Maadi Griffon. It firearm the 50 caliber round used in the M2 machinegun. Probably worth around 2D10+2 damage or so in BRP terms. Problem is, it's a big gun, holds one shot, and has a lot of recoil.

The only games where I see people going with the big damage doers or most ammo are those where the other stats don't matter. Or where the players are idiots. I once had a guy take a .44 Ruger Redhawk as his personal sidearm in an espionage campaign. Since the .44 is a big pistol, people tended to pick up on the fact that he was armed.



Most versions of BRP actually use at least 6 variations of the 'sword". Knife/Fighting Knife (Dagger)/Shortsword/Broadsword/Bastard Sword/Greatsword.

Then there is the saber, kurkri , rapier, and scimitar.



In the end it all depends on just what level of detail people want. Again using the James Bond RPG as an example, the main rulebook gave out stats for 11 weapons, 7 pistols, 3 rifles, and an SMG. Additional weapons were available through supplments. Most adventures tended to give the NPCs stats from the basic book with an alternate if the GM owned the Q Manual.

Me? I'd rather have a character using a Colt "Peacemaker" or H&K USP than a "Fast Draw Revolver" or "Medium Auto pistol".


Note that both approaches are not exclusive. There is nothing that prevents someone from doing up "generic" weapon stats and then doing up individual makes and models.

[soltakss]

Originally Posted by Atgxtg

If we wanted to be completely true to history, we should probably drop gunfighters and cowboys from the profession tables. Just too rare. It seems that at their heyday there were less than 40,000 Coybows in the Old West. That is about 1 person per 1000, at best.

Yah, boo!

Sure, there were loads of farmers, farmers' wives, shopkeepers, tailors and so on. But so what?

If you have a Wild West setting you don't want to play a shopkeeper who just keeps shop. Well, I wouldn't, anyway.

You'd want to play the farmer whose family was slaughtered by bandits, the pioneer whose sister was captured by Indians, the civil war veteran who has become a bandit, a lone gunslinger, the whore with a heart of gold, the crazy prospector, a group of bandits and so on.

People don't play the 90% of people, they prefer the 10% of the population who were exciting and interesting.

[drohem]

Exactly. If you grew up a sodbuster, then it is for background flavor only. If you're going to play an Old West campaign, then there are going to be gunfights and players are going to develop those skills.

My group created a game we called GunQuest. It was the time that the group was transitioning from RQ3 to 3rd GURPS, and it was heavily drawn from GURPS Old West. I found some old notes and details about that campaign and game. I was thinking about posting it, but there are so many gun fanatics here that I fear I would be hammered for it.

It was seriously deadly. Seriously deadly.

But it was fun as hell. We had a race and occupation roll. Eventually, it came that two groups of characters started hunting and killing each other. Our group had no problem with PvP fights. We were into roleplaying our characters. It boiled down to the fact that some characters would roll the Outlaw occupation and some would roll the Lawman occupation. Then the other players would either become outlaws in the gang or deputies of the lawmen characters.

*Disclaimer* -I used the term 'gun fanatics' in a jovial and fun manner. It was not a dig at anyone on this forum. If there is one thing in RPGs that divide players completely, it is the subjuct of guns and gun damage. Our game used simplistic gun damage based on calibur. So, for example, all .22 guns did the same damage.

[Atgxtg]

Originally Posted by soltakss

Yah, boo!

Sure, there were loads of farmers, farmers' wives, shopkeepers, tailors and so on. But so what?

If you have a Wild West setting you don't want to play a shopkeeper who just keeps shop. Well, I wouldn't, anyway.

You'd want to play the farmer whose family was slaughtered by bandits, the pioneer whose sister was captured by Indians, the civil war veteran who has become a bandit, a lone gunslinger, the whore with a heart of gold, the crazy prospector, a group of bandits and so on.

People don't play the 90% of people, they prefer the 10% of the population who were exciting and interesting.

I agree. That is why I did up rules for quick draws and gun-spinning. Realistically, neither had much bearing in the Old West. Both are staples of the genre. The old West that most people seem to want to roleplay would be more like the West of dime novels, radio, TV and film. In fact, I'd say that the western genre has probably been warped by the enterainment indusrty more than any other.


To those who want a really accurate histocial Old West, well, expect to be bored. 90% of the people were farmers, and most of thier lives consisted of working on the farm and coming into contact with the farm animals and the other family members.

Any sort of playable campaign that won't put people to sleep would require some sort of atypical situation. Practically all of the "exciting" times and places in the Old West were atypical. That's why they were remembered. The Gunfight at the O.K. Corral is remembered because it was a fairly unique occurance, not because it was a commonplace one.

A completely realistic RPG would be even duller than a completely realistic modern RPG.


BTW, THat is one reason why I don't take much stock in the "purist" who hate "Spaghetti" Westerns. The John Wayne style westerns were if anything, less authentic that the violent "Spaghetti" westerns. Basically most TV and Film westerns are an idealized 1930s-1950s USA on horseback, with six shooters. More like what Leave it to Beaver would have been like in the 19th century than what the real west was like.

[Simlasa]

So we might as well dump zombies and werewolves and evil medicine men into it... to liven it up a bit!

[drohem]

Yeah, just the thought of playing the level of hygiene accurately almost makes me gag for real!

[drohem]

Originally Posted by Simlasa

So we might as well dump zombies and werewolves and evil medicine men into it... to liven it up a bit!

I'm totally cool with that, and that's exactly what we did. A vampire accounted for a TPK in our GunQuest campaign.

[Atgxtg]

Originally Posted by Simlasa

So we might as well dump zombies and werewolves and evil medicine men into it... to liven it up a bit!

Not necessarily. I think there is plenty of "life" in the genre to begin with. Zombies and such are certainly fine for alternate takes on things, but I wouldn't want to make the part of the "core" setting. Doing so just sticks people who don't want them with them.

I wouldn't mid seeing a Phantom Empire supplment, with a underground hi-tech society, or a lost valley of Dinosaurs, or Native American medicine men with a "Ghost Dance" that works. But I think it is better to keep them as separate add ons. That way the rest of the setting us more useful.

Originally Posted by Simlasa

Yeah, just the thought of playing the level of hygiene accurately almost makes me gag for real!

The idea of being operated on in a era with limited anesthetics, no antibiotics, and where Doctors didn't wash their hands before operating scares me. It no wonder why the motility rates were so high. It wasn't the bullet that killed you, it was the physician who treated the bullet wound.

[Simlasa]

Originally Posted by Atgxtg

Not necessarily. I think there is plenty of "life" in the genre to begin with. Zombies and such are certainly fine for alternate takes on things, but I wouldn't want to make the part of the "core" setting. Doing so just sticks people who don't want them with them.

I was joking... mostly.
But the 'Phantom Empire' idea is awfully intriguing...

[Atgxtg]

Originally Posted by Simlasa

I was joking... mostly.
But the 'Phantom Empire' idea is awfully intriguing...

I know. And it's now in the public domain. If I were a smart businessman instead of someone who enjoys RPGs, I'd shut up, take the Western stuff online, and work up a Phatom Empire RPG supplment. Then see about statting it up for BRP, MRQ, Spirirt of the Century, HERO and any other Pulp and/or Western RPG.

But, no I'll probably do a short Phantom Empire chapter for the Old West thing. The hard bit is probably going to work game time right so the PCs can do their radio show on time, so they don't loose the ranch.