WFRP Style Fate points in BRP?

[Nightshade]

Originally Posted by Atgxtg

I think any sort of soulition needs to be of the limited number of uses variety to keep things intestesing. A pool that can get used up is more dramatic, espeically since it can be tracked while getting used up, than a dice mechanic that will turn a hit into a statsitical abnormality.

I tend to think you're right.

[frogspawner]

Originally Posted by Nightshade

Even with that I'm leery in a linear die roll game like BRP until you get so good that you're making the roll almost all the time; just the fact you have to roll multiple times makes it mathematically almost certain to screw up soon.

Yeah, I agree! But it's better than not having such Defence at all - that way you 'screw up' every time (at least this way, you have to be doubly unlucky for that bad hit to coincide with the failed defence roll). But I know it's not ideal - that's why I'm asking the massed intellect of the forum to help come up with something better...

Originally Posted by Atgxtg

I think any sort of soulition needs to be of the limited number of uses variety to keep things intestesing. A pool that can get used up is more dramatic, espeically since it can be tracked while getting used up, than a dice mechanic that will turn a hit into a statsitical abnormality.

I see what you mean. I wanted a mechanism that wasn't too reliable, though, i.e. predictable as to when it was going to 'run out' (like the D&D abomination of gross numbers of HPs). Not RQ2-style Defence either - that just races away and becomes daft pretty quickly (and difficult to calculate).

Maybe using a POW point per Defence roll (like you suggested before elsewhere - thanks again!) would make it selective, reserving it for use only when significant (a principle I approve of generally). I'm just not sure about the feel of an 'elective' mechanism: would it be too much like "OK, I'm killed - so I'll play my Get-out-of-death-free Card"? Too much like a spell? (Also, I have the problem of not currently using POW. And it'd be more valuable to some characters than others). But I'm coming round to liking the idea more...

I'd say the fledgeling heroes are on their own, though - it's the ones who've made the grade to 100% Defence that deserve saving from unexpected ignominous deaths...

[Atgxtg]

What you could do to balance out between those who use POW points and those who son't need them (MAges vs Fighters), you could simply create a pool of "Luck points" equal to POW and use those instead of POW/Magic Points.


Just another option.

[AikiGhost]

Personally I'd just do what Savage Worlds does, give every PC and major NPC 3 fate points per session. Its simple and there can be no arguments about it being fair or not

[Nightshade]

I think there's some virtue to tying them to Power; it gives something for Power to do in settings without a lot of paranormality, and means there's something even in settings with some, but usually specialist, magic or psi for the non-paranormal character to get out of a good Power.

[frogspawner]

Thanks for the advice, gents. I shall give it a try, allowing Defence rolls at a cost of 1 POW (MP, I mean). Hopefully it'll be balanced between magic-specialists and combat-specialists by the fact that the combat-guys will need it more often, and the magic-guys put themselves more at risk the more they cast...
One further thing I'm not sure of - should they be able to do more rolls if the first fails, and so on until POW runs out?

[Atgxtg]

Originally Posted by frogspawner

One further thing I'm not sure of - should they be able to do more rolls if the first fails, and so on until POW runs out?

Up to you. It would seem to balance out. If someone blows all their points early in the night they are vulnerable later on.

[Simlasa]

Originally Posted by frogspawner

Maybe using a POW point per Defence roll (like you suggested before elsewhere - thanks again!) would make it selective, reserving it for use only when significant (a principle I approve of generally).

How would you determine when something was 'significant'?

I'm just not sure about the feel of an 'elective' mechanism: would it be too much like "OK, I'm killed - so I'll play my Get-out-of-death-free Card"? Too much like a spell? (Also, I have the problem of not currently using POW. And it'd be more valuable to some characters than others).

That's one reason I've been resistant towards the idea of fate/hero points... specifically when they involved revisionist re-rolls. It's too 'meta game' feeling for my taste... to have something happen and then reverse it.
I'm much more favorably inclined towards some sort of proactive 'luck pool' that can be used (and used up) prior to an important roll... 'I'm about to jump my sailboard off this cliff into the raging sea to escape the villainous hoodlums... I'll dump three luck points into that to help me pull it off'
Kind of knowing a head of time what moves are bombastic and likely to fail, as well as which ones are of dramatic import and will look really dumb if you miss and trip over your sword.
Tying it to Power somehow makes intuitive sense to me... I'd think that James Bond and Captain Blood were characters with high Power stats.

[Atgxtg]

Originally Posted by Simlasa

How would you determine when something was 'significant'?

I'd think that would be the player's call. A classic exmaple would be.
Spend a point to get a better result when selling your airspeeder? No.
Spend a Point to make sure your proton torpedoes blow up the Death Star. YES!!

If the player wastes the points to improve every die roll then it's thier own fault if they run out.

Originally Posted by Simlasa

That's one reason I've been resistant towards the idea of fate/hero points... specifically when they involved revisionist re-rolls. It's too 'meta game' feeling for my taste... to have something happen and then reverse it.

Boy, you must hate BRP then. That's it's entire combat system. A guy get's attacked and then he rolls to parry and reverse the hit. Since most people don't run "statement of intent phase" and most versions of BRP allow for multiple parries, it is essentially the same thing.

Originally Posted by Simlasa

I'm much more favorably inclined towards some sort of proactive 'luck pool' that can be used (and used up) prior to an important roll... 'I'm about to jump my sailboard off this cliff into the raging sea to escape the villainous hoodlums... I'll dump three luck points into that to help me pull it off'
Kind of knowing a head of time what moves are bombastic and likely to fail, as well as which ones are of dramatic import and will look really dumb if you miss and trip over your sword.

Yes but the problem with that is that it sort of negates the major reason for the luck pool. That is saving your bacon. "Oh, I should have spent the Luck point before the sniper ambushed me and shot me dead? How was I supposed to know there was a sniper?" Ditto you example about looking really dumb. Generally speaking it isn't the hard moves that make you look dumb. It is when you are doing something easy when you trip over your sword and embarrass yourself. Also, since you don't know when you are likely to trip over your sword, spending in advance basically means not spending the points and being caught with egg on your face.

There are a few of options other than a "reroll."

First is to spend the points when you would parry or dodge. For instance, rather than using a point to reroll or make a Luck save, you could just use a point to improve the result of your next dodge or parry roll. Either the point would give you a bump up in success level, or just a flat bonus to your success chance. For instance 1 point could up a success chance by 10 or 20%. Personally I like the bump up, since that way the player will always get some benefit from spending a point (you could have a critical count as a refund of the luck point). That way, an unskilled but heroic PC could defend himself a few turns by spending luck.


Another option would be to spend the points after the hit to adjust the damage roll before it is made. For instance maybe a point turns a hit into minimum damage, or downgrades a special or critical down a grade. So that way a guy who take a critical hit from a spear and "knows" the other guy will be getting max impale damage could spend a point to downgrade the effect to only an impale, giving him a chance to survive the roll. Two could could turn the hit into a normal damage, and three would just result in minimum damage.
Again the key thing is to apply the effects before the roll. Make sure you give the player the chance to spend the points, but if they pass they don't get to go back. That way you are never going back and reversing anything.

Originally Posted by Simlasa

Tying it to Power somehow makes intuitive sense to me... I'd think that James Bond and Captain Blood were characters with high Power stats.

Well, if it is Luck then POW is the right stat. In the Bond RPG, he did have a high number of Hero Points, 13, in a game where the average PC has about half that. But he gets away with a lot.

[Trifletraxor]

Originally Posted by Atgxtg

Boy, you must hate BRP then. That's it's entire combat system. A guy get's attacked and then he rolls to parry and reverse the hit. Since most people don't run "statement of intent phase" and most versions of BRP allow for multiple parries, it is essentially the same thing.

Parry comes first! (doesn't it? )

SGL.