WFRP Style Fate points in BRP?

[Atgxtg]

Originally Posted by Simlasa

That's one reason I don't care for fate points generally... I feel that combat, generally, should be a last resort... a desperate move... dangerous enough that you will try all sorts of things to avoid it... and if you have to fight, you'll fight dirty... within the game you'll do all you can to make matters weigh in to your advantage... like setting up traps and ambushes.
As a player I want to really feel the tension of heading down a path towards violence... I want there to dire consequences.
Knowing I can get a roll-over mitigates too much of that tension for my tastes.

Some of that depends on the nature of the game. With Bond it worked because combat was so freakin' deadly. You don't have hit points, but instead take wounds based on the success level of the attack and the damage class of the weapon. So if you get hit for a KL (=Kill) result. you are dead. So in that case, being able to spend a point ot two to turn a KL into a HW (Heavy Wound) helps but keeps the tension.

"Roll overs" only applied in two specific circumstances. One was a tied draw roll (you rolled again to see who shot first). The other was when someone rolled off the table and ha to get thier dice off the floor.

Originally Posted by Simlasa

I can understand though, that for a lot of people the kind of stories they prefer, like the afore-mentioned James Bond scenarios, don't really feel right if you steer away from spontaneous gunplay...

Yeah. Some campaigns are very combat heavy. Bond actually encourages avoiding combat, and stresses than hand to hand is usually a better option than gun play (the more people you kill the bigger the paper trail you leave. Not good for a spy). Still, a climatic showdown is traditional.

Also since characters earned Hero Points through thier non-combat actions it gave them more incentive to do non combat stuff. I once saw a guy rack up 10 hero points early in an adventure when he cleaned the bad guy out at the casino and stole his girlfriend.

He ended up needing those 10 points by the end of the night. Someone really didn't like him.

Originally Posted by Simlasa

Maybe that's where increasing hit points and making good use of luck rolls comes in handy.

I'm not a fan of increasing hit points. Basically, if you have a Hero Point or two, you might think you can get away with something, but if you have a lot of hit points you know it. D&D/D20 is a good example of that. A guy with 100 Hit Points isn't too worried about being killed with one shot.

[Atgxtg]

Originally Posted by Simlasa

I've heard of some games doing that sort of thing...
I think, for myself, I'd make the player justify why the 'alteration' should take place... why is there a loaded gun in the drawer? why would there be a sword on the wall?... and base the decision to allow it on how convincing his/her justification is.

Some games do it that way. Like SPirirt of the Century. There a character can make a declaration. That is they use a skill to make up some fact or detai, and spend a Fate point to make it happen. If they make their skill test, then the fact is true (i.e. "The Eqgyptians would often build a secret door in their tombs."). The difficulty of the roll is set by the GM.

Bond on the other hand uses a sort of two stage process for such things. First, you have to coninve the GM to let it happen. So finding a loaded gun in the desk of a mafia Don would probably be more likely to fly that finding a loaden gun in the desk draw of mother superior). Likewise, finding a sword hanging on a castle wall is an easy sell, finding on on the wall at McDonald's isn't.

Also the GM can make something cost more than one Hero Point. So falling out a building onto an awning might cost 1 hero point. Falling onto a passing flatbed truck loaded with mattresses would be a lot more pricey.

[AikiGhost]

Originally Posted by Simlasa

That's one reason I don't care for fate points generally... I feel that combat, generally, should be a last resort... a desperate move...

Even in heroic fantasy? I mean I can see your point in CoC but how about a LoTR inspired game for example?

[drohem]

In my experience, a mechanic of this nature (Fate, Hero, Action, etc.) doesn't alter game play significantly. I have come to enjoy their use in the game systems that utilize them.

[Atgxtg]

Originally Posted by drohem

In my experience, a mechanic of this nature (Fate, Hero, Action, etc.) doesn't alter game play significantly. I have come to enjoy their use in the game systems that utilize them.

I agree, at leat in most cases. If the mechaic is fast to use, and restricted in the number of times you can use it, it works fine.

[Enpeze]

Originally Posted by AikiGhost

Even in heroic fantasy? I mean I can see your point in CoC but how about a LoTR inspired game for example?

Not everybody likes to play heroic fantasy games. At least I dont. (maybe Simlasa and some others too) The motto in my games is: What you roll, you get. No bargain with destiny. No revision.

BRP/RQ was a genius rule system without using fate points the last 20 years and I have no reason to believe that this has changed recently.

BTW: Hero Points in WFRP2 are maybe fun for some players, but they are working against the original intention of the grim and unforgiving setting. I hate their use in our WFRP2 games. They steal much flair because they give life in situations where Khorne wants blood. I fear the 2nd edition of the game favors the carebear fraction now.

[Enpeze]

Originally Posted by drohem

In my experience, a mechanic of this nature (Fate, Hero, Action, etc.) doesn't alter game play significantly. I have come to enjoy their use in the game systems that utilize them.

Sadly I experience the opposite once a month (where I play in a WFRP2 game)

[drohem]

Well, I don't necessarily see a conflict between this type of mechanic and grim settings. After all, there are heroes in grim settings as well.

[Atgxtg]

Originally Posted by drohem

Well, I don't necessarily see a conflict between this type of mechanic and grim settings. After all, there are heroes in grim settings as well.

You mean that guy who goes around dressed as a bat?

[Enpeze]

Originally Posted by drohem

Well, I don't necessarily see a conflict between this type of mechanic and grim settings. After all, there are heroes in grim settings as well.

I think there is no conflict as long as you dont define "hero" as someone who has more chances to resolve a game situation than an ordinary person just because his figure is a PC and not a NPC. In my rather gritty and grim games heroes are not predetermined. Of course there is heroism sometimes too, but it comes from a decision a player makes during the game and not because he has the privlege to use a dice manipulating "hero tool".

I would not have a problem to use hero points in games like James Bond (for some stunts he really needs every hero point) or LoTR setting. But normally I find such settings with predetermined heroes rather cheesy and bland and dont want to play it.