WFRP Style Fate points in BRP?

[drohem]

In my mind, players characters are heroes by definition no matter the game system or setting.

I am rather fond of the grim-and-gritty style and settings myself and I can identify with your point of view. However, I still like the concept and have no problem with using this mechanic in conjuction with a grim-and-gritty setting. It just has to be mananged properly, and the benefits of the mechanic have to be carefully balanced so that it doesn't drastically alter the flow of events (i.e. spending a point mystically heals all wounds, etc.).

[Enpeze]

Originally Posted by drohem

In my mind, players characters are heroes by definition no matter the game system or setting.

Well I think this difference in gaming philosophy is the main reason why you like hero points and I dont.

[Nightshade]

Originally Posted by weasel fierce

I generally prefer just fighting less, than having fate points. You can change things quite a bit just by tweaking hit points though

Some genres and settings don't provide "fighting less" as an option; if you're trying to run a modern action movie setting, fighting is going to happen. Quite a bit.

Its actually an issue mostly with genres that either are less lethal intrinsically (superheroes for the most part) or where lethality is high but selective (most action-movie subgenres); in particular, the latter can be well served by something like hero points because it allows the general system to be fairly unforgiving, while still providing a mechanism to shield the heroes from some of its effects (and also allow them a slightly greater ability to pull off the occasionally outrageous).

[AikiGhost]

Originally Posted by Enpeze

Not everybody likes to play heroic fantasy games. At least I dont.

Em, well its not like you have to use fate points. I just think they are a nice option for more heroic genres (High fantasy, Pulp adventure, etc)

BRP/RQ was a genius rule system without using fate points the last 20 years and I have no reason to believe that this has changed recently.

I agree that BRP is an awsome game system (probably my favourite of all time though I prefer SB5 to RQ) but that doesnt mean that it should never have new options or ideas added to it IMHO.

BTW: Hero Points in WFRP2 are maybe fun for some players, but they are working against the original intention of the grim and unforgiving setting. I hate their use in our WFRP2 games. They steal much flair because they give life in situations where Khorne wants blood. I fear the 2nd edition of the game favors the carebear fraction now.

Whereas I think WFRP second edition is vastly superior mechanically to first edition. I just runs more smoothely and "gets out of the way" in much the same way as BRP does in game.

[Atgxtg]

Originally Posted by Enpeze

Well I think this difference in gaming philosophy is the main reason why you like hero points and I dont.

I think it also has to do with the setting you are gaming in. For instance, some of us have been discussing using BRP for an Old West game. Problem is, weapon damagfes are high (actually too high) and there is no armor. So most fights will endup with someone dying after the second of third shot, with little in the way the can do for defense (Dodge is both low and limited).

A Hero Point option is one way around that. Otherwise the setting really isn't playable. You will simply end up loosing too many PCs.

[Simlasa]

Maybe, if they choose to play a game where their characters 'live by the gun'... but I can see lots of Western type tales that wouldn't involve gunfights every few minutes... and lots of roleplaying to try to AVOID the dangers of violence.

Again, it's a matter of taste... I like all sorts of different flavors of Westerns... some are ultra-violent... some aren't.

[Atgxtg]

Originally Posted by Simlasa

Maybe, if they choose to play a game where their characters 'live by the gun'... but I can see lots of Western type tales that wouldn't involve gunfights every few minutes... and lots of roleplaying to try to AVOID the dangers of violence.

Again, it's a matter of taste... I like all sorts of different flavors of Westerns... some are ultra-violent... some aren't.

Not really. Even with a low amount of gunfighting, the results don't change, just the frequency. Sooner or later weapons will be used, at least somewhat. Once that happens it is simply a case of mathematics. With no armor to speak of an no parry, and limited dodging, the casualty rate will be high. Much higher than it was historically.

Melee combat had things like armor, shields and parries to mitigate the weapon damages. With CoC it din't matter much, since you were lucky if the opposition were using firearms.

With BRP two shots from most firearms will take most characters down to zero HP.

[AikiGhost]

Originally Posted by Atgxtg

A Hero Point option is one way around that. Otherwise the setting really isn't playable. You will simply end up loosing too many PCs.

Exactly, if you want a "Heroic" with a capital H game then Hero points are a good option to use. The clue is in the mechanic name

[frogspawner]

Originally Posted by Atgxtg

Melee combat had things like armor, shields and parries to mitigate the weapon damages.

Yes, I also worry about the lethality of BRP/RQ outside fantasy settings - i.e. without Divine Intervention, magical Healing/Resurrection etc.
So I have tried a sort-of Fate Points system, giving characters 1% Dodge per FP (that's all - they can't spend 'em on anything, so no re-rolls, resurrections or story-fiddling). I'm not entirely happy with it, but some mechanism like that (which doesn't refer to Holy/Magic powers - just "Luck") might help make such settings playable. Something like RQ2 Defence, perhaps?

[Atgxtg]

Originally Posted by frogspawner

Yes, I also worry about the lethality of BRP/RQ outside fantasy settings - i.e. without Divine Intervention, magical Healing/Resurrection etc.
So I have tried a sort-of Fate Points system, giving characters 1% Dodge per FP (that's all - they can't spend 'em on anything, so no re-rolls, resurrections or story-fiddling). I'm not entirely happy with it, but some mechanism like that (which doesn't refer to Holy/Magic powers - just "Luck") might help make such settings playable. Something like RQ2 Defence, perhaps?

I don't thing Defense will work. All you end up doing is dropping the hit chances a little. Personally I favor the 1 Luck/POW point to shift the success rating approach probably with a Luck roll to limit it.

For the BRP Old West threat, I suggested swiping from Boot Hill 3rd edition. If an attack would kill a character you make a Luck save, and if successful turn the hit into a 1 point wound for a MP.