Why is BRP not that popular?

[badcat]

I don't really like multi-genre games that much, usually. In fact I would rather have seen an expanded Magic World. But that's OK. I am very happy to have BRP sans settings. I think the reason Jason doesn't consider this a 'toolkit' multi-genre game is that the whole purpose of the book was initially to gather all the BRP rules from the various setting books into one place. So essentially it was not the intent, but the final book resembles the toolkit games up to a point. That close to it, Jason?

[Joseph Paul]

Are we using different definitions for 'multi-genre'?

My definition would be: The playing of different genres, one genre at a time.

I seem to be reading some posts as defining it as: The playing of different genres, all at the same time.

Is it just me?

Joseph Paul

[badcat]

Nah, I'm getting confused too

[Jason Durall]

Originally Posted by Joseph Paul

How is BRP not generic at this time? After all it is BRP and not RQ, CoC, SB, SW, EQ, RW etc. I don't think there is anything wrong with that, I am just confused how BRP could be seen as not competing with the others for share in the generic toolkit games market.

Let me (hopefully) be utterly clear:

My goal when working on this was never to make just another set of generic game rules sake for the sake of having just another generic system out there.

It was to take the much-beloved and easy-to-use BRP and make a version of it that wasn't tied to Stormbringer or Call of Cthulhu, and brought back some of the cool stuff that had appeared in games as diverse as Elfquest, Runequest, Ringworld, Superworld, and Worlds of Wonder. I have long been the type of GM who ends up adapting many settings to BRP, and I was getting frankly tired of having to drag my Stormbringer, RQ3, Call of Cthulhu, and other rulebooks out whenever I wanted to create a new setting. I was also a bit annoyed how the different strains of BRP never seemed to be exactly congruent - there was always something squidgy that wasn't the same between the different game lines, and I wanted something consistent.

If anything, think of this as the super-complete version of the old BRP 16-page booklet that appeared in Worlds of Wonder and the original Call of Cthulhu boxed set. The goal is that GMs can use it to make their own settings in the style of Super-World, Magic World, Futureworld, etc.

Sure, it will be viewed as competing in the same "generic RPG space" as GURPS and HERO, but those games have their audiences, and a strength of BRP is ease of use. I would venture to say that most people who play GURPS like crunchy rules for building vehicles, and most people who play HERO like the effects-based powers systems.

I think of it BRP competing against them in the same way that fruit juice competes against soda and liqueurs in the drinks category - they're essentially the same sort of thing (something sweet to drink), but fulfill very different tastes.

[Jason Durall]

Originally Posted by Joseph Paul

Are we using different definitions for 'multi-genre'?

My definition would be: The playing of different genres, one genre at a time.

I seem to be reading some posts as defining it as: The playing of different genres, all at the same time.

Is it just me?

Joseph Paul

I think there's a fundamental difference of opinion about what the term means and we're talking past one another.

"Multi-genre game" can mean either a setting that crosses genres, like Rifts or Torg, or it can be a system that can be used for multiple genres, like d20, FUDGE, HERO, GURPS, etc.

You could just as easily play a kitchen-sink BRP game with sword-and-sorcery archers and Cherokee survivalists fighting UFOs in ancient Mesoamerica as you could run four different campaigns - a sword-and-sorcery game, a post-apocalyptic game, a UFO-fighting game, and a Mesoamerican myth game.

For what it's worth, I have very little taste for multi-genre settings, but hope I made an excellent multi-genre set of rules.

[Jason Durall]

Originally Posted by Jason Durall

I would venture to say that most people who play GURPS like crunchy rules for building vehicles, and most people who play HERO like the effects-based powers systems.

And while it seems strange to be quoting myself here, let me clarify that one can play the new BRP without getting into the whole point-based character generation thing at all if you don't want to. Point-based character creation is only a feature if you decide to use the super powers system or decide you want to use it.

In games like Hero, GURPS, etc., point-based is the default system and cannot be easily removed from character generation.

[Simlasa]

I'm inclined to think a lot of science fiction games (like Traveller) are inherently multi-genre when they provide rules for dealing with a wide range of technology levels and types of adventure.

[Nightshade]

I think the distinction Jason is making here--and I don't think its _entirely_ valid, but I understand why he's making it--is that the new BRP doesn't attempt to provide a tool for every purpose. It gives a basic system, some optional rules, and some add-ons that might be useful for common uses of the system, but its not attempting to be a true one-size-fits all multifunction system.

(The reason I don't think this is entirely valid is a I think toolkitting is a matter of degree rather than an absolute; as an example, at least prior to GURPS current edition (which I've not read nor own, so I don't want to comment on too much, but some have said its moved more in this direction), it only went so far in this direction; it had a psionics system and a magic system, but they made pretty specific assumptions, even if they had some toggling, and if you needed something that worked by different assumptions, or overlapped more, you were back to building your own. Hero goes farther in this direction, trying to make the build bits as atomic as it can, but even there there are always arguments that even those bits make assumptions themselves. And so it goes).

That said, I think there's something to be said for both approaches; a core system designed to have dedicated subsystems made for it can make for a better fit sometimes than one that has a more generic subsystem maker attached. Its just more work, and gives you less guidance, so for most people there's a tradeoff.

[badcat]

Thanks, Jason. I for one am not confused any more. I think.

[badcat]

...and I have to say that I very much appreciate the motivation of wanting a clean rules-only BRP ruleset, uncluttered by setting details and minutiae, as I have been picking the rules apart from the settings in Chaosium games for a few decades as well. I look forward to getting the book.