Why is BRP not that popular?

[Nightshade]

Originally Posted by Simlasa

I'd think that the actual, etched in stone, rules are relatively small... it's all the optional rules that take up the space.

Well, far as I can tell, yeah. I don't think the basic rules are any bigger than they've been for years; the book's main thrust was to gather subsystems and optional rules all in one place, from what I can tell listening to Jason on it.

[Enpeze]

Originally Posted by Simlasa

I'd think that the actual, etched in stone, rules are relatively small... it's all the optional rules that take up the space.

This is my hope too. I mean they can describe all these super duper powers and xy magic system and what not and these things will take a lot of space - this is ok for me, but the core system should be minimalistic like BRP should be. Eg. I am still impressed if I am browsing through this:

http://www.basicrps.com/core/index.html

And the character sheet in this BRP light version comes in a very attractive half page format.

[Joseph Paul]

I suspect that Simlasa is right. Even the RQIII rules would only be a fraction of this.

What I don't get is the assertion by Jason that neither he nor Chaosium wanted this to be a "toolkit" for referees. What else is it with all of those optional rules and power systems? If it does miss being a toolkit (what would have to be missing for that to happen?) why not go all the way and make it one? As has been pointed out here it is hard to break BRP adding stuff to it so I don't see where the harm would be in including such things if they are not already there.

Joseph Paul

[badcat]

My thoughts too. I suppose the difference is that the BRP options are truly just options, and the actual (hopefully minimalist) system is fully independent. I am not sure what the difference might be from GURPS or HERO, myself. Jason, if you are around you might want to address this.

[Joseph Paul]

Originally Posted by Nightshade

It didn't actually have an advantage system, justa disadvantage one, and it was only relevant in terms of the pool of super power purchase points.

I kinda thought that the powers were pretty good advantages. The GURPS advantages like Toughness, Acute (Sense), and Rapid Healing mirror powers in SW. Buy them in low quantities for a low power game. There are several advantages that would make sense as increased skills or packages of skills. Things like Rank, Patron, Clerical Investment are the harder ones that a GM would have to fudge but it wouldn't take much.

Even in Superworld, attributes defaulted as rolled; there was an optional point buy system, but that was true in RQ3 too, far as it goes. However, in general, any reference to Superworld is going to be moot for most people as its been out of print so long.snip

But the powers are included in the new BRP and I am presuming that the handicaps will be too. <looks to Jason for confirmation> So it will be relevant again.

Joseph Paul

[Jason Durall]

Originally Posted by Joseph Paul

What I don't get is the assertion by Jason that neither he nor Chaosium wanted this to be a "toolkit" for referees. What else is it with all of those optional rules and power systems? If it does miss being a toolkit (what would have to be missing for that to happen?) why not go all the way and make it one?

I'm not sure where you got that impression. Can you point at a specific post or comment that says that?

And my apologies if I've sent out a conflicting message over the long and tortured development process on this game book.

It's very much a core set of rules whose main goal was to be consistent between previous BRP games and generic enough to serve as a platform for most (if not all) settings or genres a GM wants, with optional rules to add complexity if desired, or to reduce it in some cases.

What it isn't is revisionary.

[Jason Durall]

Originally Posted by Joseph Paul

But the powers are included in the new BRP and I am presuming that the handicaps will be too. <looks to Jason for confirmation> So it will be relevant again.

The super powers section includes some basic handicaps and power modifiers, but they're not as complex or robust as those that a dedicated superhero game would include.

[Jason Durall]

Originally Posted by Enpeze

Am I the only one who thinks that the page count of the new DBRP is high? I dont hope too high. I mean is it a minimalistic rule system or not? What the hell do they describe on 350+p?

The reason the page count is so high is that it is chock-full of optional systems, content, GM advice, overviews of genres and settings, skills described, sanity, allegiance, five separate power systems, equipment ranging from thrown rocks to power armor, etc.

I wanted to make the core book the one-stop-shop for BRP gaming, and I think I got pretty damned close. Future supplements will be spared the page count spent on rules, and will be mostly content.

I've talked to Charlie and Dustin about doing a new and updated version of the 16-page BRP booklet with the new rules, and they're enthusiastic. With that, you could play the game, and hypothetically, you could run a simple campaign with non-powered characters and some basic equipment.

Now to find the time...

[Joseph Paul]

Originally Posted by Jason Durall

I'm not sure where you got that impression. Can you point at a specific post or comment that says that?

And my apologies if I've sent out a conflicting message over the long and tortured development process on this game book. <snip>

Q&A with the new BRP Author
Jason Durall:#28

There are rules for making stuff using powers, but they're admittedly light. Again, it's generally not a big part of the BRP game, and we were very strongly opposed to trying to make it just another generic rules kit like HERO, GURPS, etc.

Q&A with the new BRP Author
Jason Durall:#29

Having BRP become a substitute for GURPS, HERO, Action!, Tri-Stat dX, d20, etc. was ever a consideration or a goal. It's a different kind of game.

I was heartened during playtesting about the number of people who contacted me on the forum and outside about the ease they'd had changing existing systems over to BRP, and how much more fun they were having. I don't know if that would have happened if we'd gone down the "just another generic rules set" path.

Bolded for clarity. These three statements (and I am assuming that you meant '(n)ever a consideration' in the second one) are what led me to believe that the goal was not to produce a toolkit. It was very confusing especially the part about not competing with GURPS and HERO.

Q&A with the new BRP Author
Jason Durall:#28
I think those games have their audiences, and BRP has its audience. If anything, they're competing against one another and we're sort of on our own.

How is BRP not generic at this time? After all it is BRP and not RQ, CoC, SB, SW, EQ, RW etc. I don't think there is anything wrong with that, I am just confused how BRP could be seen as not competing with the others for share in the generic toolkit games market.

Hope that helps.

Joseph Paul

[Enpeze]

Originally Posted by Jason Durall

The reason the page count is so high is that it is chock-full of optional systems, content, GM advice, overviews of genres and settings, skills described, sanity, allegiance, five separate power systems, equipment ranging from thrown rocks to power armor, etc.

I wanted to make the core book the one-stop-shop for BRP gaming, and I think I got pretty damned close. Future supplements will be spared the page count spent on rules, and will be mostly content.

I've talked to Charlie and Dustin about doing a new and updated version of the 16-page BRP booklet with the new rules, and they're enthusiastic. With that, you could play the game, and hypothetically, you could run a simple campaign with non-powered characters and some basic equipment.

Now to find the time...

Good to hear.

Let me add just one thing: A 16p BRP booklet would be ABSOLUTELY great! Maybe just a pdf for download, a cheap teaser to get roleplayers from other systems interested to the BRP book. (call it a demo or so )