Why is BRP not that popular?

[Enpeze]

We know that BRP is the best rule set out there. I was always wondering why it has not the popularity it would deserve. What do you think: why is this so?

I think the most important reason is that alot of BRP material is OOP and only CoC and SB (as PDF) is remaining. Maybe the knowledgeable participants at this forum are able to come up with other reasons which explain the lack of popularity of BRP?

[Trifletraxor]

1) Ignorance. Most people just don't now about this system.

2) The masses are fools. Most people tend to do what everybody else does, and "everybody" is playing D&D.

3) A horrible lack of support. This was the second most popular RPG at some point. And they blew it all away with the horrible lack of support they gave RuneQuest. Most brp fans blame Greg. I know I do!

SGL.

[Trifletraxor]

So far Chaosium have focused BRP on Call of Cthulhu, and while CoC is a good game, it does not have a very broad appeal to the market. Hopefully this will correct itself with the new generic system!

Sverre.

[Charles Green]

Originally Posted by Trifletraxor

3) A horrible lack of support. This was the second most popular RPG at some point. And they blew it all away with the horrible lack of support they gave RuneQuest. Most brp fans blame Greg. I know I do! SGL.

This is it, right here. If Chaosium had played their cards right, it was possible at one point to have had RuneQuest be the RPG instead of D&D.

[Enpeze]

Originally Posted by Charles Green

This is it, right here. If Chaosium had played their cards right, it was possible at one point to have had RuneQuest be the RPG instead of D&D.

I am not sure if I can agree with this. I think BRP is suited for a gritty, realistic and unheroic gaming style but many gamers prefer the opposite. I mean they like to kill their enemies but not to be killed by them. They like to find their sword+4 vs. giant rats and they like to get 100 XP for every giant rat they are able to kill with it. They prefer cheesy "game in game" mechanics suited for powergaming to realistic action like BRP offers.
So IMO many of the D&D fans them would never change to BRP even if Chaosium had played their cards right.
(But I think what we both can agree upon is that BRP would have a much higher popularity if they did. I guess it would be under the top 5 rule systems.)

[badcat]

Lack of support is a big part of it. And many people do want a game where they can slay rats with +4 swords.

But there is more to it. A couple of points...

Part of the problem isn't what Chaosium didn't do as much as what Chaosium isn't as good at doing. Marketing. A big part of the problem is simply that the Chaosium guys were never as good at getting the word about their game out there and letting people know about it as the TSR or WOTC guys have proven to be.

Also, you can use BRP to create the kind of slay-and-loot games that our +4 sword owners crave...there are a variety of official and houserules that allow the creation of nearly invulnerable PCs. Think about it, Enpeze. In Stormbringer 1-3 you could summon a Demon of Protection with 75 armor points. Thats even better than 75 hit points, because you have to hit with 75 points or better to even hurt the wearer! And there are other ways. I ran a D&D style game more than once using a pastiche of Magic World and Stormbringer, and it was hack, slay, and loot, just like D&D but with the more playable BRP percentile system. I got my wife into rpgs that way, and she wouldn't even try D&D. Took one look at the mechanics and backed right out, then took to the BRP style 'D&D' like a duck to water.

It is mostly the lack of support and lack (or neglect) of marketing skill. As Charles Green noted, around 1981 if Chaosium had played their cards right WoW could have been expanded and become the first 'universal' rpg instead of GURPS...and replaced AD&D as the base line rpg with a more playable, coherent, and understandable game system.

It also occurs to me that if certain people, like Dave Hargrave, had latched on to RQ or Stormbringer as their original system, the creativity they brought to the hobby could have boosted BRP style systems instead of class and level ones. All these things contributed.

[Joseph Paul]

Enpeze- There are several reasons that BRP failed to gain popularity.

Read Shannon Appelcline's history of Chaosium on RPGnet.

They did some things that were not so great including failing to convert Runequest II into a universal system soon enough and supporting it.

Also TSR/WotC has been the big boy on the block for quite some time. It has controlled 40-50 percent of the gaming market for years. Those products are very likely to be what a person new to gaming is exposed to and, as Trifletraxor points out, that oftens sets peoples' expectations of games. BRP has no levels-What? It has no character classes-What!? All skills and magic are available to any character-WHAT! Heresy! It doesn't matter that the rules make better sense and model things better- they are different from what the person knows.

D&D also serves as a gamer right of passage. Nearly every gamer has played some D&D in their time. Often there are fond memories of particular modules which serve as a basis for bonding and comradeship between gamers or at least as material for boasting about how fast the party took down the evil XXX ...or how fast the party was eliminated by same!

BRP currently lacks such material.

Currently the universal system niche is being filled by GURPS and HERO and every other game that a GM prefers to use for a setting because it games well and not neccessarily because it models things well.

Other games that have done well seem to do so because they are structured around a compelling story/background. Vampire for instance, Exalted, Ars Majica. Glorantha derives a lot of its market share from people that are hooked on Stafford's world. They will jump systems in order to continue to get it. See the people buying from Mongoose? It willbe interesting to compare sales of MRQ rules to sales of MRQ Gloranthan supplements.

GURPS and HERO both have worked hard to bring material out that would allow the buyer to model particular genres. GURPS went further and produced books that allowed buyers to participate in adventures set in their favorite literary or media work. That seems to be just as important as producing a good set of rules.

Chaosium was doing the same thing with Elfquest, Stormbringer, CoC, and Ringworld. Then things blew up and they lost Ringworld, Glorantha, Pendragon, and stopped supporting ElfQuest and Nephilhim. They were left with CoC and Stormbringer and too small a staff to work out other things. It would be a big gamble to produce things that did not support the core products so Chaosium became Cthulhu Central with a dash of Elric thrown in.

BRP currently lacks such material.

Advertising- Roleplaying has gone mainstream and the big companys are advertising and can get their games in chain stores. Chaosium probably cannot afford to do so.

I think that a better question is what can we do to help popularize BRP?
I have an 6 point plan:

1) Buy it.
2) Play it.
3) Run it at conventions.
4) Talk about it on forums.
5) If there is a weakness in the rules produce fan material to patch it. You might be the next "Perrin Conventions" dude. Or Dudette.
6) Produce material useable with BRP.

Joseph Paul

[badcat]

You certainly have a point about MRQ and Glorantha. Last yearwhen I was keeping up with the Mongoose forums, just before they published either one, by far the most criticism and resistance was leveled at MRQ itself and the most excitement and acceptance was directed at Second Age Glorantha. Remember that, Enpeze?

[Joseph Paul]

Badcat- Has anyone started posting conversion info for Second Age stuff back into RQII/III? That would be a telling commentary on fans' preferences for the original systems.

Joseph Paul

[badcat]

I honestly don't know. I think there was some pretty immediate conversion to HeroQuest, but I don't frequent the Mongoose forum any more, so I couldn't say what sort of activities have been going on lately. A number of the guys over there were definitely not happy with many of the rules changes in MRQ, less so than me. And there were quite a few old RQ fans posting, so probably. Some of them have shown up at this forum, but of that lot only me and Enpeze have posted much here so far. Assuming Rurik is still around he could probably answer your question accurately. If I liked Glorantha I would be likely to convert it, or at least houserule much of the MRQ material away...it is quite similar, and does appear to be doing fairly well in spite of the business model (oodles of thin and not cheap hardcover rulebooks). Why don't you go over to the Mongoose forum and check it out?