Pendragon

[Atgxtg]

Originally Posted by badcat

I agree about the system, but I liked the alternate history angle. It was amazing to me how unnecessarily complex the system is, to basically do the same thing BRP does, yes. There's always GURPS Rome, if you can ignore the rules parts.

I don't mind GURPS that much, and do have GURPS Rome. I sort of wish more RPGs would explore actual historical settings as opposed to alternate ones, since there are usually more and better opportunities in the former.

Originally Posted by badcat

I am going to model the Atlantean army after the Roman army to some extent. I do hesitate a bit at using the weapon names 'gladius' and 'pilum' (anachronistic) but then again, why not?

Well, you could drop the Latein names for something else. I'd suggest changing the pilum to trident, and replacing the Gladius Hispanica (which only means "Spanish shortsword" in Latin) with either the Greek Xiphos ( a pointed double edged shortsword) or maybe even with the Cretean thrusting sword (this is pretty much an early rapier). One neat thing about the Cretan sword is that Crete is one of the places that may be the source for the original Atlantis myth. You could even swipe the kopis for a spaetha.

If you like you could replace the Roman Scutum with a Figure Eight or Dipylon (Hourglass) shield with little effect.


THe neat thing is that a Trident (made to bend like a pilum) and a Rapier would work quite nicely with Roman tactics, allowing your Atlanteans to fight like Romans without being Roman.

If you make you Atleanteans Cretans, then it might be worth if to give them something that the Cretans had, but the romans didn't, archers. The Cretan archers were the Ancient World equivalent to the Welsh Longbowman. They used a bow, possibly even a composite bow or recurve composite bow (and if Atlanteans, why not a recurve composite bow?

Give them archers, roman tactics, and a strong navy, and the Atlanteans would dominate the Mediterranean as in the legends.

If you want I can dig up stats for these weapons/shields. A little bit of flavor goes a long way.

Originally Posted by badcat

I'm not a big fan of Pendragon, so I don't know anything much about it. The generational thing and personality trait thing are big turn-offs to me. I consider them as unnecessary as some of Roma Imperius' more arcane rules...or fate points, et al.

A pity. I think you might like it if you got familiar with it. I think the combat system is right up your alley. It uses total hit points (equal to SIZ+CON) a major wound rule (=CON) and a knockdown rule (=SIZ). Combat is handled by an opposed roll. The winner inflicts damage on the looser. If the user rolled under his skill he gets his shield protection.

The generational thing is sort of nice. As the game goes on you get to pass on manors, gear, the heirloom magic sword,etc down to your sons. Keep in mind that since the entire campaign runs 70 years or so, you really onyl go through 2, 3 or maybe 4 generations. And you can keep playing a character when he gets old. Depending on how well you do on the aging table, old age might not be a factor. Lancelot didn't slow down at 70. Plus it take a couple of years to run through the whole campaign, and I never had a PC die of old age. So it is more along the lines of starting your replacement characters a little better off than the first character.

The personality traits serve some useful purposes:
-They are a guideline for the player for when he isn't sure what to do.
-They are used to calculate religious and chivalrous bonuses. SO a character who has a 16 or more is all his religious traits gets a bonus, like extra hit points or a better healing rate.
-They get used to test a characters virtues. Have you ever ran a camapign with a player who took everything that wasn't nai,led down until the time where the Player (not the character) knew something was up and suddeenyl acted out of character?
That is what the traits are for.
-The player has some control over his traits. Most are average, and so have little effect on the game, as only extreme traits tend to force rolls.
-Traits are also affected by the characters actions. If a character acts in accordance with a trait he gets an experience check. So if your character acts braver, he will become braver.

Passions are a bit different than traits. Basically they represent things such as a loyalty, love, or hate. A character can draw on a passion for inspiration getting a bonus to accomplish some task. For instance a character could Hate (Saxons) and roll to get inspired when fighting Saxons to get a bonus to his sword skill. The drawback is, is that if you use a passion to do something and then fail, you suffer shock. For instance, if you used you Love (Wife) passion to try and rescue her from an ogre, and failed, you would be very distraught.



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KISS all the way.[/quote]

[frogspawner]

Originally Posted by Atgxtg

The personality traits serve some useful purposes: <snip>

Thanks for that. I'm just introducing traits (and possibly passions) into my homebrew, although I don't know Pendragon that well, and it's useful confirmation of what I thought they'd be good for.

[Pete Nash]

Originally Posted by Atgxtg

Years aog, I did up some legionaire background tables for Pendragon. I got into all the various positions in the Legion, the immunes and all that. Perhaps I should dig that out for when BRP Rome is released? Maybe I got a supplement in the works?

I suppose since I'm the author of the forthcoming BRP Rome book, I should pipe up and mention that work is still continuing on the manuscript, but I hope to have it finished early next year. It should be noted too, that the supplement will be covering the somewhat more exotic Monarchy and Republican periods... So you can set adventures at the same time as the HBO series if you wish.

Originally Posted by Kloster

This doctrine is part of the Marian reform (around 100 BC).
The target was to cause thrusting wound to the abdomen without exposing yourself.

The tactic was initially designed for use against the Germanic tribes, and was then used successfully against the Gauls. The legions would press in tightly against the barbarians, preventing them space to effectively use their one handed spears or longer slashing swords; whereas the Romans could still thrust... Something those (un)fortunate enough to have been caught in the crushing press of an SCA battlefield will fully understand!

The shield of the Iberians and Celts was about the same size, but their swords were quite different. For that of the Iberians can thrust with as deadly effects as it can cut, while the Gallic sword can only cut, and that requires some room.”
Polybius - Histories

[Atgxtg]

Originally Posted by frogspawner

Thanks for that. I'm just introducing traits (and possibly passions) into my homebrew, although I don't know Pendragon that well, and it's useful confirmation of what I thought they'd be good for.

If you want I can get you more info on the Pendragon Passion rules an d how inspiration works. It's not very complicated. Pendragon is, if anything, less complicated than BRP.

[frogspawner]

Originally Posted by Atgxtg

If you want I can get you more info on the Pendragon Passion rules an d how inspiration works. It's not very complicated. Pendragon is, if anything, less complicated than BRP.

Thanks, but don't worry.

I'm not thinking to make traits/passions particularly significant: entirely optional and maybe even simpler than Pendragon. If anyone wants one or a few traits they can set them at 30-70% at character creation (similarly a passion for anything they specify). In suitable situations they can roll (again, optionally) - success doubles a skill for one roll, but failure halves.

Seem ok to you? Problem I can see is how to limit the number of times they get used: "once a day" might cover it, but is a bit arbitrary.

[Atgxtg]

Originally Posted by frogspawner

Thanks, but don't worry.

I'm not thinking to make traits/passions particularly significant: entirely optional and maybe even simpler than Pendragon. If anyone wants one or a few traits they can set them at 30-70% at character creation (similarly a passion for anything they specify). In suitable situations they can roll (again, optionally) - success doubles a skill for one roll, but failure halves.

Seem ok to you? Problem I can see is how to limit the number of times they get used: "once a day" might cover it, but is a bit arbitrary.

Actually you are not too far off from the Pendragon method already.

BTW, what I would suggest for your home brew method is to have it cost a POW point to invoke a passion. That would limit it, yet allow players to use it a couple of times a day without a problem.


The Pendragon method, since you are mostly there, anyway, is that you invoke it for some action, and roll.

If you make the roll, you get inspired adding +10 to one ability (thats 50%) in BRP terms.

If you critical the passion roll, you double your ability, although in the current version this is either double ability or +20 (+100% in BRP terms).

Failure means the character loses 1 point (5%) in the passion, and is disheartened, suffering a -5 (-25%) to all rolls until the situation passes.

A Fumble means the character looses a point of passion and goes mad for a bit.

The bonus lasts for the duration of whatever situation that you used to invoke it lasts. So if you are fighting a duel the guy who killed your lover, it would last for the duration of your fight with him.

Another kicker was that if you invoked a passion for something and then failed to achieve you goal, you suffered shock and had to roll on the aging table.

Passion scores were usually generated as 3D6 (multiply by 5% for BRP), but frequently had modifiers depending on circumstances. For instance if someone had killed your entire family, you might get a heavy bonus towards a Hate passion, or the GM could just let you set you Hate at the same level of your Love (family) passion.

[Kloster]

Originally Posted by Atgxtg

...

If you make you Atleanteans Cretans, then it might be worth if to give them something that the Cretans had, but the romans didn't, archers. The Cretan archers were the Ancient World equivalent to the Welsh Longbowman. They used a bow, possibly even a composite bow or recurve composite bow (and if Atlanteans, why not a recurve composite bow?

Give them archers, roman tactics, and a strong navy, and the Atlanteans would dominate the Mediterranean as in the legends.
...

IIRC, the cretan bow is a U shaped, simple composite bow, made with wood, reinforced with bones and sinew. The scythian one was a recurved composite bow. But for atlanteans, both are OK.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

[frogspawner]

Originally Posted by Atgxtg

Actually you are not too far off from the Pendragon method already. <snip>

Thanks again for the info. Further confirmation I may be on the right track. Nice idea about the Pow usage - ta.

(BTW, how come this thread-snippet moved to here? I nearly missed it...)

[Atgxtg]

Originally Posted by frogspawner

(BTW, how come this thread-snippet moved to here? I nearly missed it...)

Triffle tries to more/sort new threads are they arise. IMO a mixed blessing. It does lead to threads being lost, and also tends turn turn every side topic into a new thread.

[Trifletraxor]

Originally Posted by Atgxtg

Triffle tries to more/sort new threads are they arise. IMO a mixed blessing. It does lead to threads being lost, and also tends turn turn every side topic into a new thread.

But none of you guys are able to push the "New Thread" button! Instead we get mile-long threads that at the end have nothing to do with the thread title at all! Somebody gotta clean here too you know!

SGL.