Dare I ask?

[Rurik]

Originally Posted by Trifletraxor

This thread have convinced me to introduce a new smiley - the "beating a dead horse"-smiley!



So even if you can't agree with each other, you have at least accomplished something!

SGL.

I know you don't like animated smilies, but perhaps if this one were animated it might work better...

[Kyle Aaron]

It seems that BRP is not as simple as it first appears.

When choosing an rpg setting or system to use, one of the things that helps me decide on something new to me, rather than something I know well, is the thing's online community.

After all, if I don't know the thing well, I'll often want to come online and ask questions, seek advice and ideas. A lot of the credit for any success in the games I run must go to the ideas of people I've never met, people just chatting online.

So I look for a game community which is supportive, offers lots of ideas, doesn't argue about editions or respond to every question with a bash on some other game system or setting, or some edition of those. It's not essential, but if I'm uncertain about a system or setting, then the game community can help tip the balance either way.

I asked about BRP, and got this thread. Whereas I asked about HarnMaster, and got this thread.

Thanks for helping me decide, guys!

[Atgxtg]

Kyle,
Best of luck with your new game.
One warning. The situation with Harnmaster is not quite as simple as it first appears either. For starters the author and publisher are not on good terms with each other, and haven't been since the 2nd edition, several years ago. So much so that there were actually two different 2nd edition rule sets going around.

As for BRP, the difficulties come from 30 years of variations on a system, and a fairly recent rift thanks to MRQ. In fact BRP as an RPG doesn't really exist. It is a composite of several different but related RPGs that were created in the past, and really has yet to form a community. Nor is MRQ a different edition of BRP. Two separate entities with a common heritage.

But I doubt you'll get agreement on mostly any issue about an RPG. The best you can expect is that people will disagree civilly.

[RMS]

Plus, if you poke around this site enough you'll see that this is by far the most hostile of any thread around. Now, we do get off topic badly (like here!) and we do have 30 years of doing-our-own thing to discuss but for the most part it's very civil. Rather than basing it off one thread, I'd at least suggest looking around a bit and asking some specific questions.

Having said all of that, Harnmaster is a great game, at least the one I own. It's considerably more crunchy than any version of BRP which is where I'd personally make my decision on which system to go with. In fact, I'm sure there are quite a number of us around here fairly familiar with both. (My own familiarity dates to the '80s edition, so is definitely out of date now, but fits right in with a comparison against Runequest, Stormbringer, etc.)

[raymond_turney]

Hi

Kyle, Good luck with Harnmaster.

Zojila casts Raise Dead on the horse.

At least this thread has tested the ability of the software to handle long threads, does anyone care to try for 257 posts?

Ray,

[Kyle Aaron]

Originally Posted by Atgxtg

Best of luck with your new game.

Cheers, mate.

Originally Posted by Atgxtg

One warning. The situation with Harnmaster is not quite as simple as it first appears either. For starters the author and publisher are not on good terms with each other, and haven't been since the 2nd edition, several years ago. So much so that there were actually two different 2nd edition rule sets going around.

Putting it as politely as I can, I am utterly indifferent to authours and game company owners and their feelings for one another. They made their contribution to my fun by writing and publishing the game books. Anything else, such as the authour calling people names or the game company ripping people off or giving all proceeds to charity, interest me not at all.

What does affect my choice in game is the game's community. If they're enthusiastic but actually play the game, and therefore aren't as aggressive about it, I like that and it'll be useful to me. Again, this isn't a major thing in itself, it just helps tip the balance if I'm uncertain in my choice of game.

Originally Posted by Atgxtg

But I doubt you'll get agreement on mostly any issue about an RPG. The best you can expect is that people will disagree civilly.

I'd prefer people disagreed - disagreement shows that people are keen on a subject, and from such keenness comes a lot of interesting ideas.

Nor do I care if anyone's civil or not. All I care about is whether they have interesting ideas. Interesting ideas, useful links and so on can come out of quite rude people, and nothing but bland boringness from quite polite people.

Edition Wars are rarely or never interesting or useful to anyone in a game session.

[Joseph Paul]

Kyle- thanks for hitting this horse with a clue-by-four.

Joseph Paul

[Trifletraxor]

Originally Posted by Rurik

I know you don't like animated smilies, but perhaps if this one were animated it might work better...

The animated one is whipping a dead horse. This one is beating it.
Much better!

SGL.

[Atgxtg]

Originally Posted by Kyle Aaron

Cheers, mate.

Putting it as politely as I can, I am utterly indifferent to authours and game company owners and their feelings for one another. They made their contribution to my fun by writing and publishing the game books. Anything else, such as the authour calling people names or the game company ripping people off or giving all proceeds to charity, interest me not at all.

The important point here isn't the dissension between author and company but between version of the game. N Robin Crossby the author of the rules printed his own version of the game Harnmaster Gold, which is now sold by Kelestia.

So, unless you bought one version of the other already, you will have to decide what version to get. I'd recommend Gold. I've had HM1, HM2 and HM Gold. HM2 had some simplifications in it that were done to make the game more accessible, but caused real problems in play. For instance the encumbrance rules were so bad that a knight in mail couldn't hit anything. I know, I tried.

Originally Posted by Kyle Aaron

What does affect my choice in game is the game's community. If they're enthusiastic but actually play the game, and therefore aren't as aggressive about it, I like that and it'll be useful to me. Again, this isn't a major thing in itself, it just helps tip the balance if I'm uncertain in my choice of game.

Well, in that case you are being very unfair to BRP. It's hard for us to play the game when it hasn't been released yet.

Originally Posted by Kyle Aaron

I'd prefer people disagreed - disagreement shows that people are keen on a subject, and from such keenness comes a lot of interesting ideas.

I concurr. I usually get more useful interaction from those who disagree with me than agree.

Originally Posted by Kyle Aaron

Nor do I care if anyone's civil or not. All I care about is whether they have interesting ideas. Interesting ideas, useful links and so on can come out of quite rude people, and nothing but bland boringness from quite polite people.

Really? I tend to find that people who are rude don't have interesting ideas or useful links. Or at least they are too busy name calling to provide any.

Originally Posted by Kyle Aaron

Edition Wars are rarely or never interesting or useful to anyone in a game session.

Then why did you start it? Go to the Harn threads and ask what is better HM3 or HM Gold and see if you don't get a similar effect.

There isn't another edition of BRP to "war" over. Well, yes, technically there was a 16 page booklet with that title that few people really played (most played something more complete like RQ, Stormbringer or CoC). Also, technically speaking, Cahosium did relase the RQ3 rules under the BRP moniker a few years back. But the new "edition" of the game is really the first edition of the game.

[Joseph Paul]

But the rules in BRPCore, we have been told, are very similar to those in other Chaosium products. That allows for an awful lot of arguments over older sets of rules right now because they are what people know and they have been told to expect similar ones in BRPCore. It doesn't matter that the game isn't out yet, there is horde of people that are familiar with all of the foundations for the new BRP.

In fact I can't really call BRPCore a new game as much as a compilation of all the other games. When it is released we will see if it has a spirit of it's own or if it is constantly overshadowed by it's progenitors.