Dare I ask?

[Atgxtg]

Originally Posted by Enpeze

Well, maybe you are right, but was the intention to create RQ not because of beeing unsatisfied with the D&D rule system? And after RQ release Perrin and his companions abandoned D&D completely, no?

AFAIK Mongoose has never been stated to be unsatisfied with d20. And I am sure a lot of them are still favoring this awful rule system for their private games. Thats why I said the Mongoose guys are coming from a "different roleplaying culture" than RQ and are still embraced by it.

Based on all the mechanical problems with MRQ, I got the impression that the Mongoose folk don't actually run MRQ. That is something that irks me. Generally, RPGs are put out by people who are playing the game. A lot of problems get fixed through playtesting and through the house campaigns. But when a company doesn't actually play what they write, problems can pop up, some pretty obvious ones just becuase no one is really looking at the rules in play.


Also, the difference in game philosophy can show itself in design. For instance RQ/BRP is based around the idea of the active defense. With fixed Aps and hit points, it is the ability to parry that is the bulk of a character's fability to stay in a fight.

In D&D the ability to stay in a fight is mostly a function of the increasing hit points. AC, while useful is also passive.

Now with MRQ, prior to the lated update, the parry APs for weapons were so low that active parries were actually worse than useless. The 2 APs that a typical weapon stopped were not worth the increased damage taken if a character fumbled.

The ability to stay in a fight, was more a function of armor worn and hit points. In other words, more in the D&D model than the RQ model.

That was one of the rifts over the game. Those who preferred D20 tended to like the way MRQ handled parrying (if you don't have a shield, don't bother), while those who preferred RQ's parrying weapon soaking up the brunt of the attack were not pleased.

When this got brought to their attention the folks are Mongoose seemed genuinely surprised. As if the idea of using a weapon for defense was something that had never entered their minds.

[badcat]

I am more annoyed by the publishing model, the printing gaffes, the prices, and the attitude than by any of the rules differences. In fact, I think some of the rules are very good...some not so much, but that is not what has me boycotting Mongoose. It is very irritating when my local gamestore gets two copies of Elric and both are so badly warped and wrinkled inside you can't get the book open enough to read without breaking the spine, for instance. And that is not one of the books they have admitted has problems, as far as I know. Nor are the Elric books the only Mongoose products I have looked at over the last year or two with those kinds of problems. Frankly, trying to sell such shoddy-to the point of uselessness-products for the prices asked is shameful. Black Industries uses the same model, but at least you can open the WFRP books without breaking them, they are nicely done, etc. Although the proof-reading is about as bad.

It is not OK, with me, to continually produce substandard books and apologize and send a replacement, and then start over again with the next book. I don't even bother thinking about what Mongoose is 'printing' any more. And that's a shame, because the content of Elric and others sounds interesting and I am probably dead-on as a customer demographic for them. I really have to wonder how they stay in business.

[Atgxtg]

I with you there Cat,

One thing that we saw a lot over at the Mongoose site before MRQ was released was several people asking if the game would be of decent quality, printed properly, and workable. The Conan RPG got brought up along with how it was so bad that it needed the Altantean edition to be playable.

I think one telling point is that Mongoose expects 85% of their books to sit on a shelf somewhere. So their entire focus is on making the sale, not in whatever system lies between the covers.

[TRose]

Glad to hear I will not have much trouble converting my MRQ game to BRP.
There are things I like about MRQ and things I dont so will kit bash stuff from both to get what I want..
One question I have now that people have seen it for real is if I allow one player to play a sorcerer using the Mongoose rules and another a magician using the BRP rules will they be roughly balanced? I dont mind different magic systems but not if one is going to overpower the other.

[Atgxtg]

Originally Posted by TRose

Glad to hear I will not have much trouble converting my MRQ game to BRP.
There are things I like about MRQ and things I dont so will kit bash stuff from both to get what I want..
One question I have now that people have seen it for real is if I allow one player to play a sorcerer using the Mongoose rules and another a magician using the BRP rules will they be roughly balanced? I dont mind different magic systems but not if one is going to overpower the other.

Well, based on what I know from old BRP/WoW and MRQ the BRP character will overpower the MRQ character. The reason being that MRQ downgraded a lot of the RQ battlemagic. MRQW character also have a much more difficult time learning and improving spells, as they must find runes, integrate them, and then shell out big bucks to up the magnitude. By comparison a WoW style wizard can cast spells up to half his INT in intensity (=magntitude). Prices are much lower in BRP.

Costs in the hundreds of thousands just don't happen with the old BRP economics. So you'd probably need to standardized the costs. RQ2 used to have battlemagic at 500L per point.

[Rurik]

Regarding Sorcery and MRQ vs. RQ3 specifically it depends on the character's experience.

MRQ Sorcery is more evenly spread out power level wise. A starting MRQ sorcerer will be more powerful than a RQ3 sorcerer with the same skills, but highly skilled MRQ sorcerers have more limited effects than RQ3 sorcerers (no 20 year duration spells with 20,000 mile ranges).

MRQ Sorcery uses way less Magic Points than RQ3 Sorcery though, as the effect level is determined by skill rather than how many MP you put into the spell - but then RQ3 sorcerers always had a gazillion stored MP anyway by the time they got skills in the 90+ range.

Personally, I think sorcery is one of the (relatively few) areas MRQ clearly improved on RQ3.

[Atgxtg]

Originally Posted by Rurik

Regarding Sorcery and MRQ vs. RQ3 specifically it depends on the character's experience.

MRQ Sorcery is more evenly spread out power level wise. A starting MRQ sorcerer will be more powerful than a RQ3 sorcerer with the same skills, but highly skilled MRQ sorcerers have more limited effects than RQ3 sorcerers (no 20 year duration spells with 20,000 mile ranges).

MRQ Sorcery uses way less Magic Points than RQ3 Sorcery though, as the effect level is determined by skill rather than how many MP you put into the spell - but then RQ3 sorcerers always had a gazillion stored MP anyway by the time they got skills in the 90+ range.

Personally, I think sorcery is one of the (relatively few) areas MRQ clearly improved on RQ3.

Yeah, but BRP isn't using RQ3 Sorcery, but Strombringer Sorcery and/or the Magic World magic. Both are more powerful than RQ3 Sorcery and MRQ sorcery at low rankings.

[Rurik]

I was thinking of WoW magic as the sorcery system though may be confused at that. My recollection is that it was very similiar to RQ3 sorcery, but it has been a long time since I've looked at WoW.

[Atgxtg]

Originally Posted by Rurik

I was thinking of WoW magic as the sorcery system though may be confused at that. My recollection is that it was very similiar to RQ3 sorcery, but it has been a long time since I've looked at WoW.

The big difference is that WoW magic let mages cast spells at a "level" up to one half the mage's INT. So a starting mage with a good INT can cast 7 or 8 point spells. THat's a bit advantage over MRQ starting mages. A Level 7 Sharpen/Dull for +7 damage and +35% to attack would overwhelm most MRQ spellcasters.

An MRQ spellcaster would have an edge at the higher magnitudes, but considering the costs for magic in MRQ< it would take a long time to catch up.

[soltakss]

Originally Posted by Atgxtg

Based on all the mechanical problems with MRQ, I got the impression that the Mongoose folk don't actually run MRQ. That is something that irks me. Generally, RPGs are put out by people who are playing the game. A lot of problems get fixed through playtesting and through the house campaigns. But when a company doesn't actually play what they write, problems can pop up, some pretty obvious ones just becuase no one is really looking at the rules in play.

Well, several of them have said they have a current RQ campaign, so they are running campaigns at the moment.