Dodge Skill vs Parry Skill

[Shaira]

Hi all,

I'm just reading through BRP Zero and toying with a few ideas. One of these is separating Weapon Skill out into two separate Attack and Parry skills, a la Old RuneQuest.

The issue I see with the BRP rules is that because of the Dodge skill, it's hardly worth learning Parry as a separate skill for each weapon. Just Dodge all the time, whack up that one single skill as much as you can, and use it in all circumstances.

Now, if Attack and Parry are a single, dual purpose Weapon Skill (the BRP default option), then the dilemma doesn't arise - of course you want a good Weapon skill, so the choice of whether to use that Weapon Skill to parry, or a separate Dodge skill to dodge, is largely a matter of personal preference and how much damage the BEM is likely to do.

But with a separate Parry Skill - hell, then I'm just gonna Dodge, Dodge, Dodge!

Can anyone see a reason, other than Colour and Good Roleplaying (TM), why you'd ever bother to run up a separate Parry Skill when a single Dodge Skill will serve all your purposes?

Cheers,

Sarah

[Triff]

Shields? Don't you need a skill to parry/use those? How does parrying with a shield compare to dodging by the way?

SGL.

[Celhan]

Originally Posted by Shaira

Can anyone see a reason, other than Colour and Good Roleplaying (TM), why you'd ever bother to run up a separate Parry Skill when a single Dodge Skill will serve all your purposes?

I assume this means that the difference between dodges and parries has been scrapped? For example, in RQ3, there are a couple of reasons you'd want to parry instead of dodge:

1) If your opponent gets a Critical or Special Hit, your parry weapon or shield still subtracts damage on a successful roll. A successful dodge lets all that damage get through, unless you also got a special or critical success. This is a fairly serious objection to dodging... the very attacks you really, really want to avoid are the ones you are unlikely to be able to, even at a very high dodge skill. Special hits happen often enough to make this a scary prospect.

On that subject, does the new BRP allow Dodges to work against Special or Critical successes, say by reducing the level of success (e.g. successful dodge against special success attack = regular successful attack)?

2) If you're a starting character, your parry skill is goins to be around twenty percentiles higher than your dodge because of skill bases. Not an advantage to sneer at.

3) Dodge is affected by ENC on a 1 for 1 basis, but parries aren't (er... come to think of it, that's the way I've always played, I'm not sure if that's canonical in RQ).

Any of that stuff still work in BRP Zero?

[Shaira]

Originally Posted by Celhan

1) If your opponent gets a Critical or Special Hit, your parry weapon or shield still subtracts damage on a successful roll. A successful dodge lets all that damage get through, unless you also got a special or critical success. This is a fairly serious objection to dodging... the very attacks you really, really want to avoid are the ones you are unlikely to be able to, even at a very high dodge skill. Special hits happen often enough to make this a scary prospect.

I think you may be right. I've got a question with Jason on that point at the moment - the Attack / Parry table is a little unclear.

Originally Posted by Celhan

On that subject, does the new BRP allow Dodges to work against Special or Critical successes, say by reducing the level of success (e.g. successful dodge against special success attack = regular successful attack)?

Since I posted this thread, I've found some wording in the Dodge skill description that suggests Dodge might be an opposed roll in combat - I'm going to post this on the Clarifications thread & see what Jason comes back with. It'll be the cincher for this question if it is the case.

Originally Posted by Celhan

2) If you're a starting character, your parry skill is goins to be around twenty percentiles higher than your dodge because of skill bases. Not an advantage to sneer at.

Good point - for beginning characters this is certainly a key advantage.

Originally Posted by Celhan

3) Dodge is affected by ENC on a 1 for 1 basis, but parries aren't (er... come to think of it, that's the way I've always played, I'm not sure if that's canonical in RQ).

That's now an optional rule, but works just like that. However, -1% per 1 ENC over the limit isn't much of a penalty. Dodge is also a Physical skill, rather than an Agility skill, so isn't affected by bulky armour, which might have been an interesting touch.

Originally Posted by Celhan

Any of that stuff still work in BRP Zero?

Still trying to find out! In general, though, the rules are looking very consistent and well thought-out - just a bit different from what us old RQ or SB or CoC grognards may have been used to!

Cheers,

Sarah

[threedeesix]

Originally Posted by Shaira

Hi all,

Can anyone see a reason, other than Colour and Good Roleplaying (TM), why you'd ever bother to run up a separate Parry Skill when a single Dodge Skill will serve all your purposes?

Cheers,

Sarah

I think that your Agility skills are panelized by armor and enc. I know Plate gives a -25% penalty for example.

Rod

[threedeesix]

Originally Posted by Shaira

That's now an optional rule, but works just like that. However, -1% per 1 ENC over the limit isn't much of a penalty. Dodge is also a Physical skill, rather than an Agility skill, so isn't affected by bulky armour, which might have been an interesting touch.

Sarah

I don't have the book with me but the playtest said...

"Skill Modifier: This is a modifier to a number of your character’s skills while this armor is worn. The GM may assign this penalty to any appropriate skill, such as Spot if a helmet, or Swim if in full plate."

This would at least imply the GM can assign the penalty if he chooses. I know i will.

Rod

[Kloster]

Originally Posted by Shaira

...
That's now an optional rule, but works just like that. However, -1% per 1 ENC over the limit isn't much of a penalty. Dodge is also a Physical skill, rather than an Agility skill, so isn't affected by bulky armour, which might have been an interesting touch.
...

I don't know for the new BRP, but with RQ III, it was -1% per ENC, not per ENC over the limit. It was easy to have -20% to dodge.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

[Shaira]

Originally Posted by Kloster

I don't know for the new BRP, but with RQ III, it was -1% per ENC, not per ENC over the limit. It was easy to have -20% to dodge.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

Actually Kloster you're right - it is -1% per ENC, not per ENC over the limit. My bad! That does make it a bit more meaty.

Sarah

[Nightshade]

I'm reasonably sure from past reading that the new BRP uses Dodge as an opposed roll; it was a common houserule in the RQ3 days, and tends to make a lot of problems with it go away.

[Atgxtg]

Originally Posted by Nightshade

I'm reasonably sure from past reading that the new BRP uses Dodge as an opposed roll; it was a common houserule in the RQ3 days, and tends to make a lot of problems with it go away.

Well in RQ3 that you had to match the level of success kept dogoing down a bit. Someone got a special and you were in trouble.