So, Who's Got the Biggest One?

[soltakss]

Breadth of Roleplaying Experience, that is.

We've had

Nonesense to you maybe. It has always been that way in every campaign I've ever played in. I learned that way, I have always run and played that way, and I've been gaming over 25 years.

And

And I've been gaming since 1975 if we want to start waving that around. And I've seen games run that way, but they were by no means in the majority. Nor do I have any reason to believe it is the common view.

And

Bollocks.

You are confusing your own lack of breadth of experience with a general lack in the gaming industry.

In the first decade of roleplaying games there were published and sold for profit (ie, not homebrews with photocopier) at least 141 first edition English language rpgs (I include 1971's Chainmail, combatish precursor to D&D for completeness). A look down the following list will reveal that extraordinarily few of them in any way focused on killing things and taking their stuff. In addition, considerably fewer than "90%" of them were variations of D&D.

(1971) Chainmail -

(1973) Dungeons and Dragons -

(1975) Tunnels and Trolls -

(1975) En Garde -

(1975) Empire of the Petal Throne -

(1975) Boot Hill -

(1975) The Complete Warlock -

(1976) Uuhraah! -

(1976) Bunnies and Burrows -

(1976) Starfaring -

(1976) Metamorphosis Alpha: Fantastic Role-Playing Game -

(1976) Monsters! Monsters! -

(1976) Knights of the Round Table -

(1977) Bifrost - Volume 1: Faerie ed (1977) L.W.Felstead Ltd

(1977) Chivalry and Sorcery - 1st ed

(1977) Traveller - 1st ed by Marc Miller (1977) GDW

(1977) The Fantasy Trip - Melee ed by Steve Jackson, Howard Thomson (1977) Metagaming

(1977) Superhero 2044 - 1st ed by Donald Saxman (1977) Gamescience

(1977) Flash Gordon and the Warriors of Mongo - 1st ed by Lin Carter, Scott Bizar (1977) FGU

(1977) Dungeons and Dragons - Basic Set 1st ed ed by J. Eric Holmes (1977)

(1977) Space Quest - 1st ed by Paul Hume, George Nyhen (1977) Tyr Gamemakers Ltd

(1977) Star Patrol - Space Patrol ed by Michael Scott Kurtick, Rockland Russo (1977) Gamescience

(1978) Adventures in Fantasy - 1st ed by Dave Arneson, Richard Snider (1978) Excalibre Games Inc.

(1978) Dungeons and Dragons, Advanced - 1st ed by Gary Gygax (1978) TSR

(1978) Starships and Spacemen - 1st ed by Leonard H. Kanterman (1978) FGU

(1978) The Complete Warlock - 1st ed by Robert Cowan, Dave Clark, Kenneth M. Dahl, Nick Smith (1978) Balboa, Inc.

(1978) Simian Combat - 1st ed by Marshall Rose, Norman Knight (1978) Avant-Garde Simulations Perspetives

(1978) The Infinity System - 1st ed by Derrick Charbonnet, Terry Podgorski (1978) Threshold Games

(1978) John Carter, Warlord of Mars - 1st ed by M. S. Matheny (1978) Heritage Models

(1978) Legacy - 1st ed by David A. Feldt (1978) Legacy Press

(1978) High Fantasy - 1st ed by Jeffrey C. Dillow (1978) Fantasy Productions Inc.

(1978) Age of Chivalry - 1st ed by Marshall Rose (1978) Avant-Garde Simulations Perspectives

(1978) Gamma World - 1st ed by James M. Ward, Gary Jaquet (1978) TSR

(1978) Once Upon a Time in the West - 1st ed by Beck, Spencer

(1978) What Price Glory?! - 1st ed by John Dankert, Jim Lauffenburger (1978) self-published

(1978) RuneQuest - 1st ed by Steve Perrin, Ray Turney, Steve Henderson, Warren James, Greg Stafford (1978) Chaosium

(1978) Star Trek: Adventure Gaming in the Final Frontier - 1st ed by Michael Scott (1978) Heritage Models

(1978) Realm of Yolmi - 1st ed by Ken Black, Marshall Rose (1978) Avant-Garde Simulations Perspectives

(1979) Buccaneer - 1st ed by Carl Smith (1979) Adversary Games

(1979) Heroes - 1st ed by Dave Millard (1979) Tabletop Games

(1979) Mortal Combat - 1st ed by David John Morris, Steve Foster, Andrew Murdin (1979) Waynflett House Ltd (UK)

(1979) Commando - 1st ed by Eric Goldberg, Greg Costikyan, John Butterfield (1979) SPI

(1979) Ysgarth - 1st ed by David Nalle (1979) Ragnarok Press

(1979) Villians and Vigilantes - 1st ed by Jeff Dee, Jack Herman ]

(1979) Crimson Cutlass - 1st ed by George Rahm, Joseph Hilmer (1979) Better Games

(1979) Gangster! - 1st ed by Nick Marinacci, Pete Petrone (1979) FGU

(1980) Knights and Magic - 1st ed by Arnold Hendrick (1980) Heritage Models

(1980) The Archaereon Game System - Mage ed by Wilf K. Backhaus (1980) Archaereon Games Ltd.

(1980) Supergame - 1st ed by Jay Hartlove, Aimee Karklyn (1980) DAG Productions

(1980) Skull and Crossbones - 1st ed by Gerald D. Seypura, Anthony LeBoutillier (1980) FGU

(1980) Laserburn - 1st ed by Bryan Ansell, Richard Halliwell, Tony Ackland (1980) Tabletop Games

(1980) Land of the Rising Sun - 1st ed by Lee Gold (1980) FGU

(1980) Star Patrol - 1st ed (1980)

(1980) Rolemaster - 1st ed by S. Coleman Charlton, Peter C. Fenlon, Kurt H. Fischer, Terry K. Amthor (1980) Iron Crown Enterprises

(1980) Bushido - 1st ed by Paul Hume, Bob Charrette (1980) Tyr / Phoenix Games

(1980) Basic Role-Playing - 1st ed by Greg Stafford, Lynn Willis (1980) Chaosium

(1980) Castle Perilous - 1st ed by James T. Sheldon (1980) West Wind Simulations

(1980) Acquitane - 1st ed by Carl Smith (1980) Adversary Games

(1980) Beasts, Men, & Gods - 1st ed by Bill Underwood (1980) Imagination Unlimited Imagination Unlimited The Game Masters

(1980) The Atlantean Trilogy: The Arcanum, The Lexicon, The Bestiary - 1st ed by Stephan Michael Sechi, Vernie Taylor (1980) Bard Games

(1980) The Morrow Project - 1st ed by Kevin Dockery, Robert Sadler, Richard Tucholka (1980) Timeline, Inc.

(1980) Melanda: Land of Mystery - 1st ed by Lee McCormick, John Corradin (1980) Wilmark Dynasty

(1980) Dragonquest - 1st ed by Eric Goldberg, David James Ritchie, Edward J. Woods (1980) SPI

(1980) Dallas - 1st ed by James F. Dunnigan (1980) SPI

(1980) The Hammer of Thor: The Game of Norse Mythology - 1st ed by Joe Angiolillo (1980) Gameshop

(1980) KABAL - 1st ed by Ernest T. Hams (1980) Kabal Gaming Systems

(1980) Space Opera - 1st ed by Ed Simbalist, A. Mark Ratner, Phil McGregor (1980) FGU

(1980) Odysseus - 1st ed by Marshall Rose (1980) FGU

(1980) Top Secret - 1st ed by Merle M. Rasmussen (1980) TSR

(1981) Fringeworthy - 1st ed by Richard Tucholka (1981) Tri-Tac Games

(1981) Wizard's Realm - 1st ed by Niels Erickson, C. Polite, W.G. Murphy (1981) Mystic Swamp

(1981) Star Rovers - 1st ed by Stocken, Hoffman, Hoffman, Hargrave, Huey, Lortz (1981) Archive Miniatures and Game Systems

(1981) Champions - 1st ed by George MacDonald, Steve Peterson

(1981) Aftermath - 1st ed by Bob Charrette, Paul Hume (1981) FGU

(1981) Crimefighters - 1st ed by David "Zeb" Cook (1981) TSR

(1981) Spawn of Fashan - 1st ed by Kirby Lee Davis (1981) Games of Fashan

(1981) The Official Superhero Adventure Game - 1st ed by Brian Phillips (1981) self-published

(1981) Weapons and Warriors - 1st ed by Robert Alan Beatty (1981) self-published

(1981) Arduin Adventure - 1st ed by David A. Hargrave (1981) Grimoire Games

(1981) Wild West - 1st ed by Anthony P. LeBoutillier, Gerald D. Seypura (1981) FGU

(1981) Stormbringer - 1st ed by Ken St. Andre, Steve Perrin (1981) Chaosium

(1981) The Mechanoid Invasion - 1st ed by Kevin Siembieda (1981) Palladium Books

(1981) Spacefarers: Rules for Science Fiction Skirmish Adventures - 1st ed by Bryan Ansell, Richard Halliwell, Tony Ackland, Richard Priestly (1981) Games Workshop

(1981) Call of Cthulhu - 1st ed by Sandy Petersen (1981) Chaosium

(1981) Heroes of Olympus - 1st ed by B. Dennis Sustare (1981) Task Force Games

(1981) Merc - 1st ed by Paul D. Baader, Walter Mark, Lawrence Sangee (1981) FGU

(1981) Universe - 1st ed by John H. Butterfield (1981) SPI

(1982) Taste My Steel - 1st ed by Don Johnson (1982) Phantasy Network

(1982) Second Dawn - 1st ed by Art Wiederhold, George J. Herget (1982) Arrose Enterprises

(1982) Simulacron I - 1st ed by Mark Manning (1982) Simulacron I

(1982) Gangbusters - 1st ed by Mark Acres, Rick Krebs, Tom Moldvay (1982) TSR

(1982) Starleader: Assault - 1st ed by Howard Thompson (1982) Metagaming

(1982) Cassiopean Empire - 1st ed by Raymond Norton (1982) Norton Games

(1982) M.I.S.S.I.O.N. - 1st ed by Ernest T. Hams (1982) Kabal Gaming Systems

(1982) Dawn Patrol - 1st ed by Mike Carr et al. (1982) TSR

(1982) Swordbearer - 1st ed by Arnold Hendrick, Dennis Sustare (1982) Heritage Models

(1982) Supervillians - 1st ed by Rick Register, R. Vance Buck, Allen D. Eldridge (1982) Task Force Games

(1982) Man, Myth, and Magic - 1st ed by Herbie Brennan (1982) Yaquinto

(1982) Phase VII - 1st ed by Dennis Drew II (1982) Cheshire Games

(1982) FTL:2448 - 1st ed by Richard Tucholka (1982) Tri-Tac Games

(1982) Neighborhood - 1st ed (1982) Wheaton Publications

(1982) Daredevils - 1st ed by Bob Charrette, Paul Hume (1982) FGU

(1982) Element Masters - 1st ed by Kenneth Burridge, Robert Finkbeiner, Kevin Nelson, Brian Pettitt (1982) Escape Ventures

(1982) Alma Mater - 1st ed by Steve Davis, Andrew Warden (1982) Oracle Games

(1982) Space Infantry - 1st ed by Daniel Douglas Hutto, Roger Allen Esnard (1982) D&R Game Design

(1982) Dragon Warriors - 1st ed by Dave Morris, Oliver Johnson (1982) Corgi Books

(1982) Pirates and Plunder - 1st ed by Michael S. Matheny (1982) Yaquinto

(1982) Recon - 1st ed by Joe F. Martin (1982) RPG Inc.

(1982) Drakar Och Demoner - 1st ed (1982) Aventyrspel

(1982) Worlds of Wonder - 1st ed by Steve Perrin, Steve Henderson, Gordon Monson, Greg Stafford, Lynn Willis (1982) Chaosium

(1982) To Challenge Tomorrow - 1st ed by Dave Nalle (1982) Ragnarok Press

(1982) Timeship - 1st ed by Herbie Brennan (1982) Yaquinto

(1982) Field Guide to Encounters - 1st ed (1982) Judges Guild

(1982) Behind Enemy Lines - 1st ed by William H. Keith, Jr., Jordan Weisman, Ross Babcock, Eric Turn, Steve Turn (1982) FASA

(1982) Star Frontiers - 1st ed by "TSR Staff" (1982) TSR

(1982) Starfleet Voyages - 1st ed by Michael Scott (1982) Terra Games

(1982) Fantasy Wargaming - 1st ed by Bruce Galloway, Mike Hodson-Smith, Nick Lowe, Bruce Quarrie, Paul Sturman (1982) Stein and Day

(1982) Inner City - 1st ed by Chris Clark (1982) Inner City

(1982) Star Trek - 1st ed by Guy W. McLimore, Greg Poehlein, David Tepool (1982) FASA

(1983) Mercenaries, Spies, and Private Eyes - 1st ed by Michael A. Stackpole (1983) Blade (a division of Flying Buffalo)

(1983) Timemaster - 1st ed by Mark Acres, Gali Sanchez, Garry Spiegle, Andria Hayday, Smith (1983) Pacesetter

(1983) Dragons of Underearth - 1st ed by Keith Gross (1983) Metagaming

(1983) Outime - 1st ed by Marc W.D. Tyrrell (1983) Valhalla Simulation Games

(1983) Sword's Path: Glory - 1st ed by Barry Nakazano, David McKenzie (1983) Leading Edge

(1983) Ringworld - 1st ed by Sherman Kahn, John Hewitt, Lynn Willis, Sandy Petersen, Charlie Krank, Rudy Kraft (1983) Chaosium

(1983) Palladium Fantasy Role Playing Game - 1st ed by Kevin Siembieda, Erick Wujcik (1983) Palladium Books

(1983) Victorian Adventure - 1st ed by Stephen Smith (1983) Kestrel Design / SKS Distribution

(1983) James Bond 007 - 1st ed by Gerard Christopher Klug (1983) Victory Games

(1983) Wizard's World - 1st ed by David Silvera, Douglas S. Krull (1983) Fantasy Worlds Unlimited

(1983) Roleplayer - 1st ed by Matthew P. King (1983) Roleplayer Enterprises

(1983) Bureau 13: Stalking the Night Fantastic - 1st ed by Richard Tucholka, Chris Belting (1983) Tri-Tac Games

(1983) Witch Hunt - 1st ed by Paul D. Baader, Roger Buckelew (1983) Statcom Simulations, Inc.

(1983) Lands of Adventure - 1st ed by Lee Gold (1983) FGU

(1983) Other Suns - 1st ed by Niall Shapero (1983) FGU

(1983) Super-Sentinels - 1st ed (1983) Judges Guild

(1983) MuggerHunt - 1st ed by Kevin Dockery (1983) Firebird, Ltd.

(1983) Mach: The First Colony - 1st ed by Michael Lange (1983) Alliance Publications Ltd.

(1983) Droids - 1st ed by Neil Patrick Moore, Derek Stanovsky (1983) Integral Games

(1983) Valley of the Pharaohs - 1st ed by Matthew Balent (1983) Palladium Books

(1983) Powers and Perils - 1st ed by Richard Snider (1983) Avalon Hill

(1983) Swords & Glory - Volume 1, 1st ed ed by M.A.R. Barker (1983) Gamescience

(1983) Privateers and Gentlemen - 1st ed by Jon Williams (1983) FGU

(1983) Espionage - 1st ed by George MacDonald, Steve Peterson (1983) Hero Games

And

No Kyle, you are assuming that I lack breath of experience. This is the second time you've made an assumption about other people's experience.

I actually owned and of played a lot of the games you listed. I can also point out that many of them are not role-playing games. All the ones from Heritage models for example, were minatures games. Hammer of THor was a very extensive board game on Norse Mythology, with something like 1000 different counters. I bought it, and never could find anyone to play it. It was detailed, but it wasn't an RPG. Neither are rules for skirmishes. A good half of your list are games that are not RPGs, but ARE about killing things.

Let me ask you a question about you're experience. Wore you gaming during the first decade? I was. I don't think you were because if you had been you would have noted a big difference between the early games of the 70, and the games of the early-to mid 80s where the big changes started to occur.

Also, I suspect you are not gaming in the US. Fir, while many of these games did come out. Not all ofd them got into circulation, or were played. For example, I owned the Flash Gordon RPG. I wasn't really an RPG, AND it was a linerar story. The character went through the book in the same order as the episodes of the serial. Everything was predestined.

It looks to me like you just copied as list and posted it without any knowledge of the subject matter. I've played Bunnies & Burrows (once). I was linerar. I think I played 2nd edtion, too.

Chainmail isn't a RPG. It a minatures game at man-to-man scale. THere is no role-playing, just mantures fighting. THe big difference is that unlike most games that preceeded it. In chainmail you could have wizards, elves and dragons.

Actualy playing of any of these games, or even reading any of them, as opposed to looking at the titles would prove that indeed they were linear and focused on killing things.

For the record, my breadth of experience includes the following:

(1971) Chainmail -

(1973) Dungeons and Dragons -

(1975) Tunnels and Trolls

(1975) Boot Hill

(1976) Bunnies and Burrows -

(1976) Metamorphosis Alpha: Fantastic Role-Playing Game -

(1976) Knights of the Round Table (Not an RPG. It's a board game>)

(1977) Chivalry and Sorcery - 1st ed

(1977) Traveller - 1st ed by Marc Miller (1977) GDW

(1977) The Fantasy Trip - Melee ed by Steve Jackson, Howard Thomson (1977) Metagaming

(1977) Superhero 2044 - 1st ed by Donald Saxman (1977) Gamescience

(1977) Flash Gordon and the Warriors of Mongo - 1st ed by Lin Carter, Scott Bizar (1977) FGU

(1977) Dungeons and Dragons - Basic Set 1st ed ed by J. Eric Holmes (1977)

(1977) Space Quest - 1st ed by Paul Hume, George Nyhen (1977) Tyr Gamemakers Ltd

(1978) Dungeons and Dragons, Advanced - 1st ed by Gary Gygax (1978) TSR

(1978) The Complete Warlock - 1st ed by Robert Cowan, Dave Clark, Kenneth M. Dahl, Nick Smith (1978) Balboa, Inc. (Either this one of the 1975 one)

(1978) Gamma World - 1st ed by James M. Ward, Gary Jaquet (1978) TSR (which is actually Metamophis Alpha 2nd edtion)

(1978) RuneQuest - 1st ed by Steve Perrin, Ray Turney, Steve Henderson, Warren James, Greg Stafford (1978) Chaosium

(1979) Ysgarth - 1st ed by David Nalle (1979) Ragnarok Press

(1979) Villians and Vigilantes - 1st ed by Jeff Dee, Jack Herman ]

(1980) Skull and Crossbones - 1st ed by Gerald D. Seypura, Anthony LeBoutillier (1980) FGU

(1980) Land of the Rising Sun - 1st ed by Lee Gold (1980) FGU

(1980) Rolemaster - 1st ed by S. Coleman Charlton, Peter C. Fenlon, Kurt H. Fischer, Terry K. Amthor (1980) Iron Crown Enterprises

(1980) Bushido - 1st ed by Paul Hume, Bob Charrette (1980) Tyr / Phoenix Games

(1980) Basic Role-Playing - 1st ed by Greg Stafford, Lynn Willis (1980) Chaosium

(1980) The Atlantean Trilogy: The Arcanum, The Lexicon, The Bestiary - 1st ed by Stephan Michael Sechi, Vernie Taylor (1980) Bard Games

(1980) The Morrow Project - 1st ed by Kevin Dockery, Robert Sadler, Richard Tucholka (1980) Timeline, Inc.

(1980) Melanda: Land of Mystery - 1st ed by Lee McCormick, John Corradin (1980) Wilmark Dynasty

(1980) Dragonquest - 1st ed by Eric Goldberg, David James Ritchie, Edward J. Woods (1980) SPI

(1980) The Hammer of Thor: The Game of Norse Mythology - 1st ed by Joe Angiolillo (1980) Gameshop (Not an RPG, as as many of the RPGs you listed)

(1980) KABAL - 1st ed by Ernest T. Hams (1980) Kabal Gaming Systems (Argh, the hardest game I even ran. You need a claculator for this one)

(1980) Space Opera - 1st ed by Ed Simbalist, A. Mark Ratner, Phil McGregor (1980) FGU

(1980) Odysseus - 1st ed by Marshall Rose (1980) FGU (Character only have one stat, and the game is about killing things)

(1980) Top Secret - 1st ed by Merle M. Rasmussen (1980) TSR

(1981) Fringeworthy - 1st ed by Richard Tucholka (1981) Tri-Tac Games

(1981) Wizard's Realm - 1st ed by Niels Erickson, C. Polite, W.G. Murphy (1981) Mystic Swamp

(1981) Champions - 1st ed by George MacDonald, Steve Peterson

(1981) Aftermath - 1st ed by Bob Charrette, Paul Hume (1981) FGU

(1981) Crimefighters - 1st ed by David "Zeb" Cook (1981) TSR

(1981) Arduin Adventure - 1st ed by David A. Hargrave (1981) Grimoire Games

(1981) Wild West - 1st ed by Anthony P. LeBoutillier, Gerald D. Seypura (1981) FGU

(1981) Stormbringer - 1st ed by Ken St. Andre, Steve Perrin (1981) Chaosium

(1981) The Mechanoid Invasion - 1st ed by Kevin Siembieda (1981) Palladium Books

(1981) Call of Cthulhu - 1st ed by Sandy Petersen (1981) Chaosium

(1981) Heroes of Olympus - 1st ed by B. Dennis Sustare (1981) Task Force Games

(1981) Merc - 1st ed by Paul D. Baader, Walter Mark, Lawrence Sangee (1981) FGU

(1981) Universe - 1st ed by John H. Butterfield (1981) SPI

(1982) Gangbusters - 1st ed by Mark Acres, Rick Krebs, Tom Moldvay (1982) TSR

(1982) Swordbearer - 1st ed by Arnold Hendrick, Dennis Sustare (1982) Heritage Models

(1982) Man, Myth, and Magic - 1st ed by Herbie Brennan (1982) Yaquinto

(1982) Phase VII - 1st ed by Dennis Drew II (1982) Cheshire Games

(1982) FTL:2448 - 1st ed by Richard Tucholka (1982) Tri-Tac Games

(1982) Neighborhood - 1st ed (1982) Wheaton Publications

(1982) Daredevils - 1st ed by Bob Charrette, Paul Hume (1982) FGU

(1982) Pirates and Plunder - 1st ed by Michael S. Matheny (1982) Yaquinto

(1982) Recon - 1st ed by Joe F. Martin (1982) RPG Inc.

(1982) Worlds of Wonder - 1st ed by Steve Perrin, Steve Henderson, Gordon Monson, Greg Stafford, Lynn Willis (1982) Chaosium

(1982) To Challenge Tomorrow - 1st ed by Dave Nalle (1982) Ragnarok Press

(1982) Timeship - 1st ed by Herbie Brennan (1982) Yaquinto

(1982) Behind Enemy Lines - 1st ed by William H. Keith, Jr., Jordan Weisman, Ross Babcock, Eric Turn, Steve Turn (1982) FASA

(1982) Star Frontiers - 1st ed by "TSR Staff" (1982) TSR

(1982) Starfleet Voyages - 1st ed by Michael Scott (1982) Terra Games

(1982) Fantasy Wargaming - 1st ed by Bruce Galloway, Mike Hodson-Smith, Nick Lowe, Bruce Quarrie, Paul Sturman (1982) Stein and Day

(1982) Star Trek - 1st ed by Guy W. McLimore, Greg Poehlein, David Tepool (1982) FASA

(1983) Mercenaries, Spies, and Private Eyes - 1st ed by Michael A. Stackpole (1983) Blade (a division of Flying Buffalo)

(1983) Timemaster - 1st ed by Mark Acres, Gali Sanchez, Garry Spiegle, Andria Hayday, Smith (1983) Pacesetter

(1983) Ringworld - 1st ed by Sherman Kahn, John Hewitt, Lynn Willis, Sandy Petersen, Charlie Krank, Rudy Kraft (1983) Chaosium

(1983) Palladium Fantasy Role Playing Game - 1st ed by Kevin Siembieda, Erick Wujcik (1983) Palladium Books

(1983) James Bond 007 - 1st ed by Gerard Christopher Klug (1983) Victory Games

(1983) Wizard's World - 1st ed by David Silvera, Douglas S. Krull (1983) Fantasy Worlds Unlimited

(1983) Bureau 13: Stalking the Night Fantastic - 1st ed by Richard Tucholka, Chris Belting (1983) Tri-Tac Games

(1983) Witch Hunt - 1st ed by Paul D. Baader, Roger Buckelew (1983) Statcom Simulations, Inc.

(1983) Lands of Adventure - 1st ed by Lee Gold (1983) FGU

(1983) Other Suns - 1st ed by Niall Shapero (1983) FGU

(1983) Powers and Perils - 1st ed by Richard Snider (1983) Avalon Hill

(1983) Privateers and Gentlemen - 1st ed by Jon Williams (1983) FGU

(1983) Espionage - 1st ed by George MacDonald, Steve Peterson (1983) Hero Games

Plus some others that you missed.

Now if you want to debate the topic that's fine. But before you comment of someone else "breadth of experience: or lack thereof, make sure about your own.

At least with people like Nightshade and RMS, while they may disagree with me and dispute my position, they give me credit for familiarity with the subject matter.

But Kyle, I do have a clue.

So, put them all in a bath full of olive oil and who would be the winner?

Anyone else reckon they've got more roleplaying experience?

I've played Car Wars, so clearly I beat Kyle Aaron and Atgxtg (Bless You) but I don't know about Deadly or Killed-By-A-Trollkin-Yes-A-Trollkin.

[Atgxtg]

I've played Car Wars. too. I've got the flattened motorcyle to prove it!

I figure the average member of this forum has a solid 15 years of experience.

[NickMiddleton]

Does "Ringbearer" count?

Cheers,

Nick Middleton

[soltakss]

You didn't include it on your list, so it doesn't count!

We could ALL say "Well, I've played Mutant Bunnies From The Cigarette Factory" even though we haven't.

[Atgxtg]

We could ALL say "Well, I've played Mutant Bunnies From The Cigarette Factory" even though we haven't.

I'd like to see the target demographic for that one.

P.S. Are those Playboy Bunnies? :cool:

[Rurik]

Mine is the biggest. I'd post pictures to prove it, but I don't think this is supposed to be a porn board.

(And I've played Car Wars - and raise you one Dawn Patrol).

[RMS]

(And I've played Car Wars - and raise you one Dawn Patrol).

I've never played Car Wars, but have played a lot of Dawn Patrol. That was a very fun game. I've played RPGs a long time, and have played a lot of games, but nowhere near enough to seriously contend here. I've tended to run 2 or 3 games with a single group for years at a time. My jr. high and high school core group lived 90 miles from the nearest game shop, and while other groups had some games besides D&D and BRP games, we never did more than look at them a bit. In college, I went through my rolemaster/spacemaster phase (still damaged from the charts and general clunkiness of that system), then onto GURPS (hate accounting) before settling back into Chaosium games. Through the entire 90s I pretty much only played RQ and SB. When my groups did other games, I just dropped out and spent time on other hobbies. I went through an indie game phase a couple of years back and had fun with that. That group preplanned short 3-4 session minicampaigns, after which they'd switch games. I liked that approach actually, but ran out of time for it about a year ago. Now I'm back to just playing my long running long distance RQ campaign.

[Gnarsh]

Hah! Well, I played Twilight:2000 once. Briefly, and once, but yeah... Where was I?

At the risk of being obvious, I don't think the mere fact that someone has lived for X years and played Y games over that time has anything at all to do with the "breadth" of their roleplaying experience. I used to GM at RPG tourneys back in the day. Trust me. There are a zillion players who've played many many RPGs but who I wouldn't trust to put the car in park, let alone consider good roleplayers.

I'd also question whether the sheer number of games one plays at all makes them a good roleplayer, much less a good gamer at all. I know a guy who playtests games as a side job. He's a great guy. Can quote rules from more game systems then I care to count. But he can't stick to any one game system long enough to do more then learn the mechanics half the time. He gets bored quickly and moves on. I suspect that most players who buy a new game system every month or so are similar. Sure, they've got "breadth" of experience, but I've got to question the "depth".

Personally, for me it's more about the game world and the storyline. I've played dozens of game systems over the last 30 years or so, but have probably only spent significant time playing a handful. And of them, RQ has easily been the longest and most often played (yeah. I'll toss a plug out there). Started playing shortly after 1st edition came out, and really have never looked back. The game mechanics of RQ were superior when they came out, and still are equal if not still superior to pretty much any other game on the market (largely because most game systems have adopted concepts that RQ came up with 30 years ago). I've just never been interested at all in playing any other high-fantasy type game in any other system for any length of time. Every time I've tried I end up thinking "Gee. I could simply incorporate this scenario or campaign concept into RQ and it would work better".

Games in other genre's worked great though. Loved champions to death. Really enjoyed Shadowrun (2nd edition of course). Dabbled in Vampire. Um... Probably a few others that I can't think of right now.

Now, if we want to talk about depth and/or campaign length... That's a different story. The current RQ campaign I'm playing in has been running continuously since sometime in 1980 (the originator played a different game world for a year or so before switching to the current one). Players have come and gone (I think there's only 3 of the original left). But the entire campaign has been played in a continuous timeline from a starting point about 28 years go in real time (and I believe 120 years now in game time) and has run straight through. We've had characters start, adventure, retire, grow old and die during this time. Many of them. There are some characters being run today that are the great grandchildren of some of the earliest characters. It's not uncommon to run plot threads in this game that take 3-5 years to play out (real time, so upwards of 15-20 years game time).

There may be a game or two out there that's run a longer single contiguous campaign, but probably not by much. So you can take your breadth all you want. I've enjoyed playing in a game world with a long and rich history, that has survived intact for so long and looks to continue for a long time to come. IMHO, that's why we play roleplaying games, right?

[Lord Twig]

As I expected I am a relative newb here. I started gaming in 1980 with the D&D Red Box. Moved to RQ 2nd Edition shortly after that.

I have played Car Wars as well. Plus Autoduel Champions!

[Atgxtg]

Never did Dawn Patrol. Didn't like the hours. But I did do some Ace of Aces, and Lots of Lost Worlds (did a death defying feat with Lost Worlds when I was younger and more reckless).

Gnarsh has a good point. Jumping from game to game might grant familiarity with a lot of rule sets, due does not indicate quality of play or depth of experience. With so much being subjective quality and even depth of experience are half to rate. I've known guys who have played D&D for decades, who are still dungeon crawling and "just show up to roll dice and kill things." And that is a quote from one of them admitting it.

While I'd question if such play constitutes role playing per say, the player did have fun and played D&D for a long time.

[Rurik]

So if I admit to having never actually played a role playing game I win then, right?

Wierd. :ohwell:

(and Ace of Aces rocked very rockily)

[Atgxtg]

So if I admit to having never actually played a role playing game I win then, right?

Wierd. :ohwell:

(and Ace of Aces rocked very rockily)

Well, we know you can't win at a RPG, so it would have to be something else for a win, right? :confused:

I still got the WWII edtion they did of AofA.

[Guest the Bromgrev]

What, nobody's ever played Delta Force?

[Trifletraxor]

I started around -93, with the RuneQuest Basic Edition!

(Yes ye old geezers, I'm a baby compared to you! )

((I have a permanent RQ fanaticism ability though!))

SGL.

[Atgxtg]

What, nobody's ever played Delta Force?

Playhed it, no. Ownit yes. I got the DF Companion too. Never ran either, but made good sorucebooks for Bond.

It's always good when a bunch of trained specialsits are about to hit the place and some Brit "observer" averts the crisis, kills the bad guy, blows up the place, and gets the beautiful girl.

[Kloster]

As I expected I am a relative newb here. I started gaming in 1980 with the D&D Red Box. Moved to RQ 2nd Edition shortly after that.

I have played Car Wars as well. Plus Autoduel Champions!

For Car Wars, or for Champions?

Runequestement votre,

Kloster (VMG fondler)

[Kloster]

Well, we know you can't win at a RPG, so it would have to be something else for a win, right? :confused:

I still got the WWII edtion they did of AofA.

Yes, the Me262 rocks (and fly like a rock, either).

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

[PK Games]

Powers and Perils anyone?

[Ken]

Is this the kind of thread that I can admit that i've got a mint copy of RQ2 knocking about in its box. A separate one for use in playing obviously, but a mint RQ2........ can't be many of them knocking about.

Ken.

[Triff]

Is this the kind of thread that I can admit that i've got a mint copy of RQ2 knocking about in its box. A separate one for use in playing obviously, but a mint RQ2........ can't be many of them knocking about.

Ken.

Got a shrinkwrappet copy of RuneQuest 1 (go eBay!), or that is, it was shrinkwrapped until I got my hands on it.

SGL.

[Jarulf]

Powers and Perils anyone?

Yup. A couple of times.

[Shaira]

Yup. A couple of times.

Well, as a girl, of course I'm not at all into p*ssing contests and hosing down the decks with competitive testosterone...

but...

Powers & Perils... yup. And I'll see your Car Wars and raise you Metamorphosis Alpha, Gangster, a battered "pink cover" copy of Buffalo Castle & Arduin Grimoire vol 1 with the original "Tunch" cover... >:->

... and if anyone can lay claim to a copy of "Spectre" fanzine with the "Appleland Groves" and "House of Thievery" scenarios or a copy of the "Arden" campaign supplement, I will of course bow down in wordless homage before them.

Sarah (gaming since 1980)

[threedeesix]

I started gaming back in 1978 with Traveler. Having never game mastered or even played an RPG I did'nt really know what I was doing. My players pretty much created their characters and I said "heres you 100 ton scout ship, heres the map of the Spinward Marches, where do you want to go?"

It was maybe a year or two later that I discovered Gamma World and we jumped into that. Then maybe a year after that that I get into AD&D quickly followed by RuneQuest. Since then I have played more games than I can count.

It was with TSR that I found out how structured published adventures tended to be and I have not been able to break myself from the structured format since.

The players that are still with me from the beginning still talk about those early Traveler days and I want so much to run a BRP Traveler campaign where I have them create their characters, I say here is your 100 ton scout ship, here is a map of the Spinward Marches, what do you want to do?

Maybe this year.

Rod

[drohem]

hehehe....yeah, I'm a young buck and not a gronard!!!

[Nightshade]

Got a shrinkwrappet copy of RuneQuest 1 (go eBay!), or that is, it was shrinkwrapped until I got my hands on it.

SGL.

This is one where I have a slightly unavoidable edge because I've known Steve Perrin for so long; so I not only have a copy of both RQ I and II, but my I is signed by him. Of course, as I said, the fact he's GMing M&M for me Saturday makes that kind of less impressive in its way.

(Faux testosterone to the side, the only real advantage to having been doing this A Really Long Time is that early on the hobby was small enough that it seemed like everyone knew everyone, at least to some degree. When DunDraCon I occured, even though it wasn't a huge Con, we had pretty good reason to believe we had a significant percentage of at least the West U.S. D&D contingent actually there with us...)