Comparative Systemology

[Trifletraxor]

Originally Posted by Atgxtg

I think their ownership of the name, RuneQuest, expired. That is how Greg managed to buy it up. The domain on the other hand, Hasbro owns. They might be willing to sell it now. I think letting the name lapse was an oversight.

Sorry, yeah that was what I meant. I contacted them about the domain when my new RQ enthusiasm was lit by the Mongoose promise of more RQ goodies. It was a flat no then at least. Got runequest.info instead, and started up a website there, but now only a Glorantha link list remain which have now been taken over by Chris Holden.

Originally Posted by Rurik

The sad thing however for many old RQ fans is that:
Not that any of this is your fault, or Chaosiums. But I share in the pain of RQ grognards like Triff and company.

Yup. Glorantha is gone for me now, which is sad because I had a lot of fun in it. Greg's "new" Glorantha never caught my interest though. I would have loved to see Gwenthia for BRP, as it seems to have similar potential. A lot of BRP success will be dependent on it getting some really good settings, with support by good material published for it.

I don't like the shift from hit locations to the major wound table from Stormbringer at all, but won't like to do a lot of conversion work either. I'll probably go with rolling for hit location (so you can have different armor), and say damage above 50% of total results as below 0 HP in that location for RQ, 100% of total leads to sever/maim, and death at -POW HP or any round below 0 total HP that you don't succeed with a POW x5 roll (or if severing/maiming a vital location).

Yup and I have somewhat dislike for the new magic system from what I've heard from it so far.

I would have preferred to play the real RQ in Glorantha with new material, but BRP with a lot of supplement in the line is the second best thing, so I'm happy with that!

SGL.

[Joseph Paul]

Rurik I agree with you. Some how what I am seeing so far isn't giving me the game I want. I wanted BRP for a future space setting but the design choices so far seem to have been made to intentionally limit the "crunch" available. I am not even seeing options that allow more crunch to be enabled.

As a resource for running other Chaosium games it has to be suspect in that the rules that were cribbed from those other games may very well have been altered to fit other parts of BRP.

Jason, I don't mean to be such a downer or to be overly critical of a work that I haven't seen yet. However what I am reading on this forum indicates that what I want from games is not what Chaosium wants to supply at this time.

[Atgxtg]

Originally Posted by Trifletraxor

I don't like the shift from hit locations to the major wound table from Stormbringer at all, but won't like to do a lot of conversion work either. I'll probably go with rolling for hit location (so you can have different armor), and say damage above 50% of total results as below 0 HP in that location for RQ, 100% of total leads to sever/maim, and death at -POW HP or any round below 0 total HP that you don't succeed with a POW x5 roll (or if severing/maiming a vital location).

SGL.

One thing I was thinking of was to use hit locations, but get rid of HP/location. Instead kicking the damage dice up a step for head hits and down a step for limb hits (or maybe up/down two steps). Then treat a major wound as a disabled location.

One thing about RQ that is a bit strange is that a chest hit that does enough damage to drop someone in RQ inflicts enough damage to sever a limb, or very close to it.

[Trifletraxor]

Originally Posted by Atgxtg

One thing I was thinking of was to use hit locations, but get rid of HP/location. Instead kicking the damage dice up a step for head hits and down a step for limb hits (or maybe up/down two steps). Then treat a major wound as a disabled location.

We're thinking likeminded here. I don't think there's a need to up the damge for the vital locations though, as hits there allready lead to more drastic consequences.

SGL.

[Atgxtg]

Originally Posted by Trifletraxor

We're thinking likeminded here. I don't think there's a need to up the damge for the vital locations though, as hits there allready lead to more drastic consequences.

SGL.

More along the lines of a head hit being intrinsically more dangerous, life threatening that a limb hit. A couple other games do something similar.

I could see something along the lines of just adding or subtract 2 from the damage, but limit it so the you can never do more that double or half the ttotal (so a 1 point hit is always at least 1 point, and a 1 point head hit would be 2 points instead of 3).

A two point die shift (d4to d8, d8 to d12/2d6) would do the same, and allow for grazes and such.

[Jason Durall]

Originally Posted by Joseph Paul

Jason- Why start with WoW and SB? What did they offer that others did not?

They provided a solid platform to build a generic multi-genre system onto that was eminently playable, with a minimum of rules complexity.

RQ assumes a fantasy background, with those emphases, some of which aren't easily applicable to other genres and settings.

[PK Games]

Originally Posted by Jason Durall

They provided a solid platform to build a generic multi-genre system onto that was eminently playable, with a minimum of rules complexity.

RQ assumes a fantasy background, with those emphases, some of which aren't easily applicable to other genres and settings.

Having never played Runequest or even seen a book for it, I say thank you for that Jason. Not anything against RQ or what not, but my BRP experience comes from a few Superworld games and alot of CoC.

So I would like to once again mention that you are all correct. Its not RQ. Its BRP.

[Atgxtg]

Originally Posted by PKGames

Berlin '61: The only RPG proven to make your mother love you more! (26/420)

I got to know. Where did that come from?

[The Venomous Pao]

I'm in the "thanks for making BRP, not another iteration of RuneQuest" camp, personally.

I love (love, people, l-o-v-e) what I've read in Zero Edition so far. Yes, there have been some typos and things that needed clarification, but those things are to be expected in what amounts to a proofreader's copy. Anyone who is scared off of the final version before there is a final version just because of the typos and errors found in such an advance text probably should stay away from sausage factories. You do not want to see how the stuff is made.

Also, judging the game based on an early sample character sheet seems right up there with judging a book by its cover to me.

All this angst over things being made optional confuses me. It's not really the same as taking the sacred cow out back, shooting it in the head and turning it into hamburger. It's just streamlining things a bit for the newbies (yes, like me) but leaving the option for the crunchier stuff for those who want it. Take strike ranks. I don't like 'em. I'll never use 'em. They're too crunchy for my tastes. Now, I could get mad that they're in the book taking up space that could've been used to flesh out the powers systems (which I do like). But hey, why stress? Let's let everyone have their options.

Now I'll admit where I can see how this might lead someone to think that these options won't be readily supported in supplemental material. But I'd suspect that, given the relatively small amount of effort required to include them, they don't get dropped. And if they do, that same small amount of effort can add them back in for each person who chooses to do so.

In my initial read through I didn't really get the idea that EDU and SAN are considered core. I also don't quite remember the sanity rules taking twenty pages. I don't have the book here with me right now, though, so I won't get pedantic and count them. I'll just say that these concerns seem to me to be the most unfounded. Not less meaningful, just unfounded.

In the end, though, I'm not here to tell people they're wrong or anything. I just thought I'd throw my hat in with the "I like it, sorry you don't" crowd.

As to soltakss's "final" sentiment in the first post

To me, it's just a variation of RQ and will always be just a
variation of RQ.

All I can say is wow. I mean, you're entirely within your rights to feel that way. But it seems like an awfully limiting world view. Still, if you feel that way then, to be all zen-like, that's the way you feel.

Anyway, I'll repeat for sanity's sake, I'm not into this for a fight. I just don't understand the vitriol or the judging something apparently sight unseen.

Like I said, I'm glad this isn't just a redo of RQ. I was never into RQ. It's a fine game in its own right, but I happen to like BRP better. So I'm glad to see it get a new lease on life. I can't help but wonder if that, in the end, isn't what all this is about. BRP gets resurrected but RQ proper doesn't (MRQ notwithstanding) and that upsets people. Then again, I might just be reading too deeply into things.

Oh, and a note to Joseph Paul: I don't see any way in which BRP couldn't be used for a future space setting. What crunch is it that you don't perceive to be in the rules (even as options)? Strike Ranks are there. Hit Locations are there. HP by location is present, too. I'm not trying to refute you here, I'm just trying to understand where you're coming from and what you think is missing.

[frogspawner]

Originally Posted by Trifletraxor

I'll probably go with rolling for hit location (so you can have different armor), and say damage above 50% of total results as below 0 HP in that location for RQ, 100% of total leads to sever/maim, and death at -POW HP or any round below 0 total HP that you don't succeed with a POW x5 roll (or if severing/maiming a vital location).

Originally Posted by Atgxtg

One thing I was thinking of was to use hit locations, but get rid of HP/location. Instead kicking the damage dice up a step for head hits and down a step for limb hits (or maybe up/down two steps). Then treat a major wound as a disabled location.

Sounds pretty similar to what I've been using recently (have I said this before?):
HP = SIZ*/2, roll location (if rqd), 0hp or below disables location, -5 is Serious wound**, -10 is Critical wound**, -CON is dead.
* (Or use your favourite method to calculate HPs, and divide that by 2.)
** Each location has a small sub-table of possible Serious/Critical wounds, i.e. one for each sub-location (elbow, forearm, etc).
(Edit - Serious: break or similar; Critical: sever/maim).