Comparative Systemology

[soltakss]

Originally Posted by Joseph Paul

Soltakss- Would you care to elaborate on the parts of your post that I bolded? I would be interested in hearing more about what people found dissatisfactory in the current incarnation. You may want to open a new thread or just email me off list if you are more comfortable doing that.

OK, no problem.

but even after playtesting and checking it still needs extensive alterations.

Starting with the easiest, Typos, Errata , Corrections, and Clarifications is a four page thread on problems found with BRP Zero, in addition to the pre-Zero version that has doubled its weight due to red marker and post-its. Clearly, it still needs some work. That's not surprising since Playtesting doesn't catch everything, changes are always made afterwards and many games have extensive errata after publication. Hopefully, it will be more coherent than RQM and will need less houseruling to run as it stands.

It has a lot of rules I don't like and a lot of things I won't use, just like RQM.

Pretty much the whole of the Powers System - I just didn't like them.

The assumption that although EDU and SAN are optional rules they are regarded as pretty much core (OK, that's my anti-Coc bias showing through).

Major/Minor Wounds.

20 pages of Sanity Rules (OK, that's my anti-Coc bias showing through again).

The playtest was interesting but the game seemed to be moving further away from RQ

DEX Ranks are primary, Strike Ranks are Oprional.

Major/Minor Wounds.

Hit Locations as an optional and relatively minor rule.

The sample Character Sheet having EDU and SAN but no Hit Locations (as they are optional - just like EDU and SAN - or have I mentined this one before?)

The entire Magic System. It may be great but what happened to Spirit/Divine/Sorcery as a viable alternative?



So, those are just some reasons why I felt that BRP has moved quite a way from its RQ heart, just like RQM.

To me, it's just a variation of RQ and will always be just a variation of RQ.

[Ken]

Well I have this funny tingle down my right leg when I've been cycling for too long, and my wrist makes a funny clicking sound when I twist my forearm repeatedly.

I wondered if you practitioners of Comparative Systemology could recommend a cream for it!!!

Serious note though.

I've played RQ over the years with lots of different options, (with or without strike ranks, no hit locations, etc), and to me what always kept the core feel of Gloranthan roleplaying was the transparency of the system. Basically the, 3d6 characteristics, percentile rolls and resistance table provided all that was needed to play and this allowed the exploration of a rich world rather than comprehensive rules system.

I would be the first to say that a mechanic changes/alters/affects the way players play in a world. My style of playing has always led me to the narrative way of looking at things, so a transparent system was always perfect for that type of play.

Just my thoughts.

Ken.

[Kloster]

Congratulations soltakss, you were faster on creating this topic.

On most of the points you cited, I'm in full agreement.

I have other points:
- As hit locations, skill categories modifiers, single skill per weapon (attack/parry), strike ranks are optional, they will probably means they will not be used in the supplements, and if I want to use them, that's more work for me.
- As variable armor is standard, it will probably means it will be used in the supplements, and if I don't want to use it, that's more work for me.
- Why having used the magic from WoW and SB, and discarded the 3 from RQ.

This is why, although I like what Jason did, I think the new BRP is moving further away from RQ than the previous incarnations.


Runequestement votre,

Kloster

[Atgxtg]

soltakss has some good points here. I also think that BRP has moved away from RQ. Not really surprise though, since that is what was being advertised. Any confusion over this can probably be the blame of Chaosium because of the BRP Monograph.

As a RQ fan, the more I've found out about BRP the less I think I'm going to like it. I like RQ, with all it's complexity, and never cared for the watered down versions such as CoC and Elric! that seem to be popular with several people here.

I don't consider BRP to be RQ anymore than I consider CoC to be RQ. RQ derived, yeah, but not RQ. MRQ, however, claims to be RQ, instead of a derivative. Claims were made as to the involvement of Greg Stafford and Steve Perrin in the development that were false. BRP makes no such claims.

Jason and Chaosium have been quite upfront about the new BRP not being RQ. Mongoose were not. The basically used the RQ name and word of Stafford's and Perrin's involvement to con a bunch of RQ fans into buying the game. I have little doubt that most of the first printings were preordered by RQ fans. I suspect that there is enough evidence to win a fraud case against Mongoose. Not there is enough money involved to make it practical (a class action suit for a few thousand people at $25 a head isn't worth the trouble).

So neither is RQ, but at least the folks behind BRP are honest about it.

[Jason Durall]

Originally Posted by Atgxtg

Jason and Chaosium have been quite upfront about the new BRP not being RQ.

Thanks for recognizing this.

Though the RQ mechanics are at the heart of BRP, the book I've produced is a direct descendant of Worlds of Wonder, with elements from Stormbringer/Elric!, Call of Cthulhu, RuneQuest*, ElfQuest, Ringworld, and Superworld.

If I were going to play RuneQuest, I'd take out my copy of RQ3 and run that.


* This is an utterly tangental point, but does anyone know why the hell runequest.com goes to Hasbro's site? Is that lingering side effect from the old Avalon Hill buyout?

[Atgxtg]

Originally Posted by Jason Durall

Thanks for recognizing this.

No problem. My biggest gripe with Mongoose was that they were not upfront about MRQ. I've got a few others, but that is one of the more unforgivable ones.

You've been pretty clear that this isn't a updated RQ3/BRP Monograph (I wish they had used another name for that-Deluxe Role Playing would have been better). You've mentioned that several times, as have everyone else who was familar with it/playtesting it. While I won't know if I like BRP or not unitl I see it, I don't feel like I've been conned.

I did feel that way with Mongoose.

Originally Posted by Jason Durall

If I were going to play RuneQuest, I'd take out my copy of RQ3 and run that.

Me too. Perhaps I might go with RQ2 for somethings (O prefer RQ2's 12 SR over RQ3s 10 SR), but overall I'm of the opinion that nothing is going to be more RQ than RQ.

Originally Posted by Jason Durall

* This is an utterly tangental point, but does anyone know why the hell runequest.com goes to Hasbro's site? Is that lingering side effect from the old Avalon Hill buyout?

I think so. Hasbro probably bought the domain when they still owned the name, and so now own the domain. Nothing to do except either wait for it to expire or buy the name off of them.

[Trifletraxor]

Originally Posted by Atgxtg

I think so. Hasbro probably bought the domain when they still owned the name, and so now own the domain. Nothing to do except either wait for it to expire or buy the name off of them.

They own the name, and they do not want to sell it. I checked a couple of years ago.

SGL.

[Atgxtg]

Originally Posted by Trifletraxor

They own the name, and they do not want to sell it. I checked a couple of years ago.

SGL.

I think their ownership of the name, RuneQuest, expired. That is how Greg managed to buy it up. The domain on the other hand, Hasbro owns. They might be willing to sell it now. I think letting the name lapse was an oversight.

[Rurik]

Originally Posted by Jason Durall

If I were going to play RuneQuest, I'd take out my copy of RQ3 and run that.

The sad thing however for many old RQ fans is that:

1) No new supplements for BRP will work with RQ3 without a fair amount of work for the GM (assuming SR and Hit Locations will probably not be used for stats in most supplements as they are optional)

2) No new Glorantha supplements will work with RQ3 without even more work for the GM.

Three years ago if you told me all the tidbits about the release of BRP, The release of MRQ, and all the Release of Second Age Glorantha for RQ, I would envisioned a utopia of RQ goodness. The reality of this brave new (RQ) world has not lived up to the promise. We have RQ, BRP, and Glorantha, but somehow we have three pieces that don't all fit together or work together nicely.

Not that any of this is your fault, or Chaosiums. But I share in the pain of RQ grognards like Triff and company.

[Joseph Paul]

Thank you Soltakss and everyone else for sharing your thoughts. I appreciate it.
Anybody else want to voice what they know they don't like/find disagreeable/are mildly annoyed with about BRP?

Jason- Why start with WoW and SB? What did they offer that others did not?