Movement

[Trifletraxor]

Originally Posted by Atgxtg

Where did you get you data?

As always, by Googling! If it's online, it gotta be true!

People can run quite a bit faster than what you got there. Some people have been clocked at 47kph, and

Michael Johnson is the record holder with 10.352 m/s (=37,27 km/h).
This is sprinting, by the world fastest runner alive today human. 20 km/h for an average chump with gear seems like an okay approximation - 12 mph came up as the average human running speed in a lot of what I read (which is about 19.2 km/h, so the estimation with gear is actually a bit excessive).

5km/hr seems a bit low for walking pace.

Walking - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - wikipedia never lies!

Admittedly 47kph running would be a sprint rate, and that would work out to about 256m/MR.

Speedy Gonzales!

Plus I think the formula won't hold up for non-humans very well. Elves will get slighted, trolls will get faster, and giants will become speed demons.

The formula is for humans only. Other PC races should have their own (using the averages for NPCs though, to keep it simple overall).

SGL.

[Atgxtg]

Originally Posted by Trifletraxor

Michael Johnson is the record holder with 10.352 m/s (=37,27 km/h).
This is sprinting, by the world fastest runner alive today human. 20 km/h for an average chump with gear seems like an okay approximation - 12 mph came up as the average human running speed in a lot of what I read (which is about 19.2 km/h, so the estimation with gear is actually a bit excessive).

That was over 200m. People have run much faster over shorter distances.

Originally Posted by Trifletraxor

Speedy Gonzales!

"The fastest recorded instantaneous velocity achieved by a human was supposedly by Donovan Bailey, who set the World Record in the 100 m (9.84 s). He was clocked at 12.1 m/s, although this figure is perhaps a bit rough (recorded by a radar gun). Accurate data was taken at the 1997 World Championships in Athens, where the top speeds of both Maurice Greene and Bailey were recorded at 11.87 m/s (althogh neither set records in the race -- Greene ran 9.86 s to Bailey's 9.91 s). Bailey was also clocked at 11.91 m/s in the 4 x 100 m relay final at the same championship."

"I have run some simulations which suggest that Michael Johnson probably hit a maximum velocity of 11.6 m/s in his 19.32 s world record race, but was able to sustain speeds in excess of 10.0 m/s for the duration of the race (something no other 200 m runner has ever accomplished, in theory)."

Quiites from:
Speed of the Fastest Human, Running

So unless PCs are going to be running a long distance, they can hit higher speeds.

Originally Posted by Trifletraxor

The formula is for humans only. Other PC races should have their own (using the averages for NPCs though, to keep it simple overall).

SGL.

Wouldn't be simpler to just use a running skill. We don't use a formula for jumping or other physical activities?

[Trifletraxor]

Originally Posted by Atgxtg

That was over 200m. People have run much faster over shorter distances.

World records:
200m - Michael Johnson - 19,32s - 10,35 m/s
100m - Asafa Powell - 9,74s - 10,27 m/s
60m - Maurice Greene - 6,39s - 9,39 m/s

So, no they don't. Acceleration time makes the speed go down the shorter the distance is, at least below 100m. The numbers you have is the max speed during the sprint probably.

So unless PCs are going to be running a long distance, they can hit higher speeds.

Acceleration slows them down, gear slows them down, not being the worlds best runners also slows them down. Normal humans don't hold that speed.

With the rules I outlined above, a normal chum could sprint at 20 km/h (= 5,56 m/s), a big fast one at 28 km/h (7,78 m/s). With successful run skill, it could be increase by 1 or 2 km/h maybe, depending on how you define the skills. Those numbers fit pretty well I think.

Wouldn't be simpler to just use a running skill. We don't use a formula for jumping or other physical activities?

It would be simpler, but not better I think. It would work somewhat like MRQ's the brute force skill (STR 3 guy wins arm-wrestling contest over STR 18 guy because of better brute force skill) if a DEX 18, SIZ 18 guy is outrun by a DEX 3, SIZ 8 guy because of a running skill. The running skill is nice, could up the speed a bit maybe, but still I like stats to add to it too. I've always used (DEX+SIZ)/8 for human move rate in RQ3, and like the variation.

SGL.

[Atgxtg]

Originally Posted by Trifletraxor

World records:
200m - Michael Johnson - 19,32s - 10,35 m/s
100m - Asafa Powell - 9,74s - 10,27 m/s
60m - Maurice Greene - 6,39s - 9,39 m/s

So, no they don't. Acceleration time makes the speed go down the shorter the distance is, at least below 100m. The numbers you have is the max speed during the sprint probably.

Which is the kind of movement characters will be doing when they move flat out. More like, can they get behind that rock before the archers shoot than can they get 200m.

And the three and four minute miles require speeds of 32kph and 24kph to be possible over long distances.


[quote=Trifletraxor;8971]
Acceleration slows them down, gear slows them down, not being the worlds best runners also slows them down. Normal humans don't hold that speed.

With the rules I outlined above, a normal chum could sprint at 20 km/h (= 5,56 m/s), a big fast one at 28 km/h (7,78 m/s). With successful run skill, it could be increase by 1 or 2 km/h maybe, depending on how you define the skills. Those numbers fit pretty well I think.



It would be simpler, but not better I think. It would work somewhat like MRQ's the brute force skill (STR 3 guy wins arm-wrestling contest over STR 18 guy because of better brute force skill) if a DEX 18, SIZ 18 guy is outrun by a DEX 3, SIZ 8 guy because of a running skill. The running skill is nice, could up the speed a bit maybe, but still I like stats to add to it too. I've always used (DEX+SIZ)/8 for human move rate in RQ3, and like the variation. [quote=Trifletraxor;8971]


There is some info on human speed and what causes it. Turn out it is really a factor of how high you can jump. Everyone moves their legs at the same same, but those who can get higher off the ground can take longer strides with their steps, and so move father in a give amount of time. See:

Student Solves Mystery Of What Limits Running Speed


Rather than using a formula to determine speed. Why not give a base speed and have the abilities modify the speed? That way the same formula could be applied to all creatures. You would just need to swap out the base rate.

For isntace if you wanted to have DEX, SIZ or STR give a +/-1 per 4 points away from 10, and set the base range for humans to 4m/s or so you could get about the same results, and the apply the same modifier for horses, elves, cheetahs, and elephants, just by changing the base move rate.

[Trifletraxor]

Originally Posted by Atgxtg

Which is the kind of movement characters will be doing when they move flat out. More like, can they get behind that rock before the archers shoot than can they get 200m.

If you take a look at the numbers again, the speed go down when the distance go down. So when Michael Johnson is running for the stone 20m away, while you try to put an arrow in his bakc, his average speed will be much lower during his 200m world record.

And the three and four minute miles require speeds of 32kph and 24kph to be possible over long distances.

There is some info on human speed and what causes it. Turn out it is really a factor of how high you can jump. Everyone moves their legs at the same same, but those who can get higher off the ground can take longer strides with their steps, and so move father in a give amount of time. See:

A tall person generally have a longer stride than a small one, hence SIZ. DEX have always been the "coordination and speed" attribute, so adding it into the equation will also be appropriate I think.

Rather than using a formula to determine speed. Why not give a base speed and have the abilities modify the speed? That way the same formula could be applied to all creatures. You would just need to swap out the base rate.

For isntace if you wanted to have DEX, SIZ or STR give a +/-1 per 4 points away from 10, and set the base range for humans to 4m/s or so you could get about the same results, and the apply the same modifier for horses, elves, cheetahs, and elephants, just by changing the base move rate.

I see no need to apply a formula to all creatures. It would anyhow need to be different formulas to each creatures as I doubt one would fit all. For NPCs, animals and monsters I'd just use average speed.

SGL.

[Atgxtg]

Originally Posted by Trifletraxor

I see no need to apply a formula to all creatures. It would anyhow need to be different formulas to each creatures as I doubt one would fit all. For NPCs, animals and monsters I'd just use average speed.

SGL.

I do. Otherwise you will end up with fast huumans zipping past evens or what not.

The coll thing about using a base speed plus modifiers is that the formula could work for every creature just by change different creature base speeds. THat would allow for faster racing horses.

For instance if we gave a +1 per 4 points of DEX and SIZ (your favored stats) over 10 and a -1 per 4 under 10. We'd have:

DEX or SIZ	Modifer
1	-3
2-5	-2
6-9	-1
10-13	+0
14-17	+1
18-21	+2
22-25	+3
+4	+1

So if we set the base human speed at 5, we would get results pretty close to your formula, but be able to plug in different base speeds for different creatures.

For instance horses could have a Base Speed of 8 with a +5 for being SIZ 30ish.

Race Horses would have a higher base speed.

We could give dwarves a base speed of 3 or 4 and elves a base speed of 6 or 7.


This way the math would be the same for everybody and the modifier could be applied universally.

We could even factor in STR with SIZE and DEX without upping the numbers much.

[Trifletraxor]

Originally Posted by Atgxtg

I do. Otherwise you will end up with fast huumans zipping past evens or what not.

Zipping past what?

The coll thing about using a base speed plus modifiers is that the formula could work for every creature just by change different creature base speeds. THat would allow for faster racing horses.

The base speed couldn't be the same as their average speed then though.

For instance if we gave a +1 per 4 points of DEX and SIZ (your favored stats) over 10 and a -1 per 4 under 10. We'd have:


So if we set the base human speed at 5, we would get results pretty close to your formula, but be able to plug in different base speeds for different creatures.

For instance horses could have a Base Speed of 8 with a +5 for being SIZ 30ish.

What about the elephant?

SGL.

[Trifletraxor]

If setting the base MOV as the average speed, then using a tables like yours based on difference from the average stat, that could maybe work. Maybe STR should be worked into the equation too, as it's certainly relevant for fast running.

SGL.

[Atgxtg]

Originally Posted by Trifletraxor

Zipping past what?

Evens. They are a potential race for the shared fantasy world very similar to elves, with only 3 degrees of separation on the Typo scale of species.

Originally Posted by Trifletraxor

The base speed couldn't be the same as their average speed then though. No but it could be figured from the average speed after accounting for DEX, SIZ and maybe STR.

What about the elephant?

SGL.

Elephants have been clocked charging at 25mph, or about 12m/sec

So at DEX 10, SIZ 53 they would get +10m for size so would have a base of 2., adjusted 12.

If we factored in for a 45 STR (another +8), base would need to drop to -6 to get the right speeds.

BTW, Here is a table of animal speeds:
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0004737.html

[Trifletraxor]

Originally Posted by Atgxtg

Elephants have been clocked charging at 25mph, or about 12m/sec

Nature says 15 mph.

So at DEX 10, SIZ 53 they would get +10m for size so would have a base of 2., adjusted 12.

Don't like those calculations. I'd rather have a base at the average speed, and then adjust up and down, so the GM don't have to calculate for every single critter unless he/she really wants too.

SGL.