Movement

[Atgxtg]

Originally Posted by Trifletraxor

Nature says 15 mph.

You'll find a lot more too. Generally animal speeds are hard to get because there is no way to know if the animal is going flat out, just how far the animal is traveling and to measure the time precisely. Well, except for horses and dogs, which we run in races.

For instance the speed of a sprinting cheetah was usually listed at 60mph when I was a kid, crept up to 65mph when I got out of school, and last time I checked had gotten up to 70mph.

I suspect most animals probably have the same variance in running speed that humans do. We just haven't had the chance to work it out. Plus, when a Elephant, rhino, bear or cheetah is charging, the folks who could be working out speeds are probably trying to stop it with a rifle before it gets to them.

Originally Posted by Trifletraxor

Don't like those calculations. I'd rather have a base at the average speed, and then adjust up and down, so the GM don't have to calculate for every single critter unless he/she really wants too.

SGL.

Well the simple way to do that would be to apply modifiers for DEX, SIZ different from the norm. So if an Elephant has a 53 SIZ then 4 points above that would be 57, so at that SIZ the elephant would get a bonus.

[Chaot]

Originally Posted by threedeesix

In the new version of BRP, SIZ is more dependent on height than weight.

Yeah, and I think it's the right way to go. Since SIZ is a weird hybrid of mass and reach (height) it's hard to quantify and apply to a rules system. I've always thought that some of the strength of BRP is that it can be abstracted and can be played fast and loose. When viewing an attribute, I generally take it at it's most optimum use. That's why I included SIZ in the equation.

If one wanted to get crazy with it, they could factor a low CON or STR in to determine whether the SIZ stat describes a large athletic person or not. One could also incorporate body sizes from Stormbringer4. That's too crunchy for my taste.

There's a lot of number crunching in this thread, which is good. I haven't bothered to do that. I'm only concerned is whether something is slower, as fast, or faster than something else. So, using the BRP0 rules and my simple equation (1'm assuming Humans are 3d6 with an average of 11):

Centaur MOV 20
Human MOV 11
Horse MOV 19
Elf MOV 12
Dwarf MOV 9
Halfling MOV 11
Orc MOV12
Giant MOV 72
Wolf MOV 11
Hawk MOV 16

etc.

It works pretty well. One issue is that vehicles and PC/NPC MOV rules won't work the same unless you want to assign stats to vehicles.

[Trifletraxor]

You've got the wolf and the halfling at the same speed with that formula though. I think a wolf should be able to run down a halfling pretty easy.

SGL.

[soltakss]

Personally, I've never liked formulae for working things like this out.

What I prefer to do is to compare with existing movement rates. So, is a leopard as fast as a tiger? You don't need exact matches, after all, because of the integer numbers.

After all, what do you need movement for?

Round by round chases - relative MOV is what's important here.

Turn by turn scenario movement - most people walk at about the same rate and many creatures move at about the same rate.

Day by day movement - all you really need is a table showing how far people can move. Sure, some things can move slightly faster than others but it isn't going to make a huge difference.

So, I wouldn't bother with fancy formulae or give every creature its own indivudually crafted MOV rate. I'd keep it simple.

[Atgxtg]

Originally Posted by threedeesix

In the new version of BRP, SIZ is more dependent on height than weight. Look at SIZ 13 for example, an average human. Height only varies a couple inches, but weight about a hundred pounds. (I'm at work and don't have the book with me). So I agree that the above formula could work for me.

Rodney Leary

That isn't because Height is more important. It has to do with something known as the square-cube law. Basically if you take an object (or person) and double it's size (twice the height, width, depth) you cube the mass.

The table looks like the old one from Strombringer, and gives you a range of size for a character, probably so that all SIZ 13 characters don't all weight exactly the same. Based on the SIZ scores for horse, cars, and other things, SIZ doesn't look like it has changed much. Using the vehicle masses and comparing with the RQ3 chart, it looks like the same formula holds, just that some of the values have been rounded off to the nearest number divisible by 5.

[Chaot]

Originally Posted by Trifletraxor

You've got the wolf and the halfling at the same speed with that formula though. I think a wolf should be able to run down a halfling pretty easy.

Yeah, that's why I augment MOV by movement skills (Run, Swim, Climb, Drive, etc.)

My basic wolf would probably start out with a Run skill of 60%, my basic Halfling with a Run of 25% (I'm being generous here). The wolf's at MOV 7 and the Halfling's at MOV 3. The wolf runs down the Halfling easily. The only reason why the Halfling can conceivably compete with the wolf their inhuman +10 to their Dex roll.

Originally Posted by soltakss

Personally, I've never liked formulae for working things like this out.

What I prefer to do is to compare with existing movement rates. So, is a leopard as fast as a tiger? You don't need exact matches, after all, because of the integer numbers.

I understand where you're coming from, but I've never liked the monolithic MOV stat. I know many 'humans' who are consistently faster than me, and many who are consistently slower. Instead of assigning MOV stats by caveat or introducing a Speed stat I use this little formula, and despite the game not being written with movement being dependent on Size and Dexterity in mind, I've had no trouble with it in the past.

So, in my game, some sort of chase usually pops up at least once a session. I ask their MOV and their pertinent skill and just do the math in my head. A couple of MOV:MOV, maybe some Stamina rolls, and some scenic description (allowing segments into the race so that the players can throw in some loops and do interesting things), and the chase is over. Very easy, very effective.

Now, my approach is definitely not for everyone. I play fast and loose on what MOV actually means. I only use it as a comparison Stat, not a hard value. But I figure if SIZ is height and weight, and DEX is dexterity and agility, and INT is intelligence and wisdom a soft MOV stat wouldn't be out of place. Just putting it out their for those who might be interested.

[threedeesix]

Originally Posted by Atgxtg

That isn't because Height is more important. It has to do with something known as the square-cube law. Basically if you take an object (or person) and double it's size (twice the height, width, depth) you cube the mass.

I wasn't implying that it was more important as much as reworked so it is more dependent on it.

In other words, in RQ3, if you were going to create yourself as a character you would look up your weight on the SIZ table to find what your SIZ is. There is no overlap so it's cut and dry.

When I did my conversion of Selene from the movie Underworld, I looked up
the height and weight of Kate Beckinsale on the internet to determine her SIZ, she weights 115lbs and is 5'6" tall.

Looking up 115lbs in BRP means she falls between SIZ 6 and SIZ 13. That’s a large spread and would involve me having to guess what SIZ to give her.

Now, looking up her height of 5’6” (66”) gives me a possible SIZ of 10 or 11. This is much easier to work with. I settled with a SIZ 10 as Kate looks on the petite size.

SIZ Height Weight
6 49–54 51–120
7 55–59 61–140
8 60–62 80–160
9 62–64 85–180
10 64–66 90–200
11 66–68 95–220
12 68–70 100–240
13 70–72 110–260

I'm sorry if I derailed this thread, I just wanted to clarify why I think SIZ is more dependent on height than weight in the new BRP.

Rod

[threedeesix]

Originally Posted by Chaot

So, using the BRP0 rules and my simple equation (1'm assuming Humans are 3d6 with an average of 11)

I'm not sure if the above comment was referring to SIZ. If it was then the human SIZ is 2D6+6 for an average of 13.

Rod

[Chaot]

Doh. Yeah, Siz. I've used 3d6 for such a long time I tend to forget it's officially 2d6+6. My bad.

[Atgxtg]

Originally Posted by threedeesix

I wasn't implying that it was more important as much as reworked so it is more dependent on it.

In other words, in RQ3, if you were going to create yourself as a character you would look up your weight on the SIZ table to find what your SIZ is. There is no overlap so it's cut and dry. [/quote]


THe SIZ table is not that new (SB1 I think), and SIZ for people wasn't supposed to be cut & dried. Just that the scale was give as the most common use for SIZ was for lifting things. People would wounder if two SIZ 5 rocks made a SIZ 10 rock (they don't). The fixed scale gave you something to go on.So if you are going to pick up Kate () the GM doesn't have to worry about if she is SIZ 10, 11 or 6 or 13.

The original RQ SIZ chart had ranges for both, and the full SB1 chart actually broke up weight by frame. So she could be light framed.


P.S> I am so naming a druid after you the next time I run Star Wars. 3D6 is such a great druid name.