The World of Old-School RPG's is Entering Its Twilight

[Ars Mysteriorum]

Or at least it feels that way.

The BRP system is really the last system I plan to throw my money at. I have stated in another thread in the Gamer's Cavern regarding how deeply impacted I was at the fall of Warhammer RPG's. I actually bought into that line because I thought it was secure. Now I realize that pretty much any old school game is not secure.

Without miniatures, successful video game tie-ins (Baldur's Gate I and II were brilliant), computer support, and a successful MMORPG either in the works or out in the world, a game's longevity is severely impaired.

Games Workshop's failure to commit to anything outside of direct support for its core miniatures games (which are no doubt extremely lucrative) pretty much seals its fate in the RPG world. And it's an understandable perspective. Plus, it doesn't have an entertainment monster like Hasbro backing it and helping aim it at the vast numbers of kids out there. Without revenue-belching peripherals, many RPG's live with a very short life expectancy.

Except for BRP. BRP has been around nearly as long as D&D. Call of Cthulhu manages to keep chugging along thanks to a large number intensely devoted fans. Who are, no offense, aging. Myself included. I no longer care about all the scripted abilities, feats, talents, and doodads I can add to my character sheet. I don't care what level my character is. I don't even care about "winning." I want a story. I want a struggle. Games' systems are not going this direction. Oh, yes there's always White Wolf, but that angsty, uncertain, and dark struggle just doesn't appeal to me. If I want that, I'll go back to middle school and high school (which I'd much rather not).

BRP for me, is representative of the optimal game. It provides struggle. It doesn't focus on k3wl p0w3rz. Every action has possible severe consequences. When the dice are rolled, you care more about what the result is and "success" is so much sweeter, while "failure" is much more interesting than in other games I've played. It makes for an approachable narrative drama that is more epic than any game can attest to, in my opinion. And with the death (or deformity) of my favorite RPG's, I can use BRP to homebrew settings the way I remember them being when I played them as a kid.

But, how long will BRP last? Do you think it will survive another generation? I think I'm the youngest poster on this board, and I'm 25. Most people my age are more concerned with getting a house or an apartment, making car payments, getting a big TV and stereo system, finding a wife, and tacking down a job. And not playing old-school RPG's. MMORPG's, sure, but not old-school ones (Call of Cthulhu, Talislanta, etc). With a rapidly vanishing marketing niche, what place is there for these old (but fantastic) games?

Am I being negative? Am I overreacting?

Please give me your thoughts.

[rust]

BRP is not the only one of the "old" RPGs that is still alive. Some are doing
quite well (Traveller), some are barely surviving (Empire of the Petal Throne),
some even almost returned from the grave (Star Frontiers). True, most of
the players of these games could hardly be called "Youngsters", but there
are also at least enough younger players to keep the games alive, I think.

Besides, from my experience many players stop playing at around the time
when they start their careers and found their families, but not a few of them
return to roleplaying a couple of years later, once they have settled into
their "adult lives", and remember their former hobby. Therefore there is a
certain "thinning out" in the age group in question, which is at least partial-
ly "repaired" in later / older age groups [sorry, my English is probably not
sufficient for this subject, but I hope one can guess what I mean ...].

So, I am not pessimistic at all. Like in art, music and many other fields at
least many of the really good "classics" have survived, and will most probab-
ly continue to do so. Moreover, some even start "growing" again, with Tra-
veller being a good example: Two new editions planned for this year.

[Ars Mysteriorum]

For some reason, in my weird little brain, Mongoose Games just doesn't count.

Mostly because it seems they rehash old games in new, shiny packaging. Mostly it seems to be shiny to hide the many printing and system errors they make.

But that's probably just me.

[Atgxtg]

Well after TSR going under and being bought up by WotC, it is safe to relize to RPB is safe.

But they never have been. Virtually every RPG company out there has gone broke at one time or another, and RPGs were fading fast in the old days. In fact, faster than today, that's to things like PDFs, print of demand, and desktop publishing bring the operating costs down.

About 90% of my favorite RPGs are no longer in print. And it has been that way for close to 20 years. So I don't think games lines are any less secure now than 20-30 tears ago.

[Ars Mysteriorum]

Yes, Atgxtg, but I'm young and, therefore, so very stupid. I have just now realized the tenuous grip on existence my hobby has after I got sick of mainstream MMORPG/Emo RPG's.

All the good ones go out of print so fast.

And that SUCKS.

[rust]

@ Ars Mysteriorum:
Ah, well - I see your point. However, many of the early Chaosium products
have even been worse than average Mongoose products, including the first
edition of Runequest, and for me the more important point is the fact that
those old games are printed, packaged - and sold. In my opinion it is better
to have a subperfect edition of the game available than none at all.

@ Atgxtg:
On the other hand, dozens of the out-of-print-RPGs are now available again
as PDFs, and some of them even have managed to gather new communities
around them (see Star Frontiers), and have started a "second life" that is
in some cases even more vibrant than it was when they were in print.
Back then, it was often quite a problem to find another person who played
something like FTL: 2448 or Fringeworthy and wrote material for it, nowadays
the Internet makes it comparatively easy to make useful contacts that keep
even "fringe" games alive.

[Atgxtg]

Originally Posted by Ars Mysteriorum

Yes, Atgxtg, but I'm young and, therefore, so very stupid. I have just now realized the tenuous grip on existence my hobby has after I got sick of mainstream MMORPG/Emo RPG's.

All the good ones go out of print so fast.

And that SUCKS.

Yes it does, but it isn't so bad as it looks. I found out in the mid 80s when the Bond RPG died out due to lisencing issues. My solution was to pick up a few extra copies to have on hand for backups.

It really doesn't matter much if a game is out of print if you like it and play it. It just means that there is no more support. At least officially. Now, thanks to the internet and desktop publishing, many RPGs get some excellent fan made support. For instance there is a "fake" From Russia With Love supplement for Bond and a few on-line Q Manual 2's. I did up a bunch of stuff for the game myself.

So it's not all black and darkness.

And recently a few RPGs have come back from the dead.

[Atgxtg]

Originally Posted by rust

@ Atgxtg:
On the other hand, dozens of the out-of-print-RPGs are now available again
as PDFs, and some of them even have managed to gather new communities
around them (see Star Frontiers), and have started a "second life" that is
in some cases even more vibrant than it was when they were in print.
Back then, it was often quite a problem to find another person who played
something like FTL: 2448 or Fringeworthy and wrote material for it, nowadays
the Internet makes it comparatively easy to make useful contacts that keep
even "fringe" games alive.

Oh yeah! Thanks to PDF's I was able to track down the one Flashing Blades supplement I didn't have. FGU, among others has returned from the grave thanks to PDFs. In the long run, I suspect just about every RPG that isn't tied to a lisenced setting will be brought back eventually. No reason not to.

[Ars Mysteriorum]

Begin Childish Whinery:

Fine. RPG's coming back from the dead? Would a Developer-Necromancer be kind enough to throw some Ju-ju powder at Warhammer? Even in zombie form, I can still love it. That's love man. Necrobibliophilia. Dead Book Love, baby.

And while they're at it, how about making a supreme system for Talislanta? Something capable of emulating the RIDICULOUS number of races and career-types that populate this game with minimal headache. And monsters in ONE section. And get rid of that stupid add/subtract modifier crap. It makes me cross-eyed.

End Childish Whinery.

You have a point. I just had been spoiled by the idea of constant supplement support by playing D&D. Even that game betrayed me with it's 4th Edition shenanigans. Sigh.

[Ken]

I think one of the things that has to be said about our hobby is that it is a niche market. It does have it's 'brand' big names that seem to sell and sell, but on the whole I feel that the market for tabletop roleplaying is a little smaller than it once was.

Tabletop RPGing was the kingdom of the geek in those fine bygone years of the eighty's, and yes I succumbed to going out with 'the lads', finding women and learning to play guitar, all of which were considered a little more social..... Or so it seemed, (by those 'less' geeky).

But now a few years on, RPGing is one of the pleasures I have in the week where I meet up with those 'old school' friends and we play and chat and reminisce about the passing of Jorune, Ringworld, etc.

To touch on what may be a raw nerve. I think that the reason for it's continued faltering market when "geek has become the new cool", (10,000,000 subscribers for WoW), is that tabletopping requires something that is so difficult for people that have a busy and hectic lifestyle. It requires time. It's an effort to get a few people round a table these days, more so if you've got a family or other commitments to look after.

It takes time to learn a system. It takes a little time to find which one of your friends is most suited to GMing. It takes time to write/read up scenarios. A worthwhile campaign takes time.

Look at the alternatives and no wonder they're wining the battle for our geek time. Magic, the Gathering and other CCGs. (Tragic, the Saddening or geek-bridge as I call it). Games learned very quickly and reliant on plugging cash into blisterpacks.

WoW and other MMORPG's. Very little effort put into what is effectively power gaming for magic items with P.C.s instead of dice.

RPG/Adventure computer games. Again very little effort to play a console/PC adventure.

Isn't that why our hobby, (and hence market) is not stable. Just not enough people that are willing to sit round a table and throw dice and tell stories?

Though I say buy an RPG if you can, I would suggest that you find those games that you enjoyed of yester-year that are out of print (such as Ringworld for me), download their sorry-ass and keep them alive for yourself.

Either that or write a sourcebook for BRP and see if you can get the license.

Ken.