BRP as a first game vs. "converting" gamers --

[frogspawner]

Originally Posted by darkheart

RQ faults as we have been finding them
Character creation - randomly rolled stats, narrow focused and unballanced previous experinece system, little to be done to tweek the character with quirks/abilities etc.
Cults and Skills - I never noticed before how limited the number of non cult skills were available. This can limit people as much if not more than D&D classes.
Learning through experience - While this is still one of the better skill reward systems out there, it is still a bit limited that using a skill succesfully once within a week is the same as using the skill 100 times within the week.

If these really bother you, they can solved pretty easily with a few house-rules. You could import things from BRP: points-buy for stats, more balanced profession templates, fun distinctive features and maybe even a personality trait or two (though they're for NPCs, strictly). I'm sure there are more skills too. (But to my mind the worst thing about classes is they are artificial: In BRP/RQ your character is a person with skills (like the RW), but in D&D they are just a stick of rock with Ranger/Rogue/Bard/Cavalier/whatever written through the middle).

The skill-rewards thing is tricky, but having tried several variations over the years I still come back to it. Multiple ticks (sorry, experience checks) per skill lead to combat skills racing away - and non-combat should be encouraged, unless all you want to do is hack-and-slash. Maybe allow up to 2/3 ticks, but just for 2nd/3rd chances at the one increase roll (not multiple increases)? Alternatively just consider that there are a lot more rolls in combat than for Persuade, Navigate, Ride (or whatever) simply because the system for combat is a lot more detailed - players being interested in that sort of thing! Would they want combats resolved by a single Opposed Roll on one weapon skill? I doubt it.

Originally Posted by darkheart

I know i complain that i can learn how to climb ropes by beating a monster over the head with my sword when playing D&D.

Thanks for reminding me of this one! I must quote it at every opportunity...

[Jack Tar]

Originally Posted by frogspawner

You're not saying "suggest it to Dustin", so do you mean there's one already underway...?

From Jason's blog, I'm hoping his "secret" BRP projects are just this, plus a referee's screen. I'm REALLY hoping for the latter.

[jarulf]

And I was speculating it was RQIII style magic

[RosenMcStern]

Originally Posted by darkheart

Character creation - randomly rolled stats, narrow focused and unballanced previous experinece system, little to be done to tweek the character with quirks/abilities etc.

Let characters distribute stats from a pre-determined point pool. Let them roll one more die and drop the lowest die. Let them swap rolls. Do as you like. Character creation is just a guideline in BRP - adjust it to your taste.

Cults and Skills - I never noticed before how limited the number of non cult skills were available. This can limit people as much if not more than D&D classes.

This is a RQ2 limitation. All other BRP variations do not suffer from it. Ever wondered why there have been three new editions of RQ (ok, one was never published, let's say two) after RQ2? Maybe some problems were solved in them.

Learning through experience - While this is still one of the better skill reward systems out there, it is still a bit limited that using a skill succesfully once within a week is the same as using the skill 100 times within the week.

Add one additional tick per extra successful use if character does something really heroic (frex criticals). When improvement is rolled, add 5 to the die roll per each extra tick. Simple and not too disruptive.

All in all, one of the beauties of BRP is that you do not have to adhere strictly to the rules, especially WRT character creation and development, and there are dozens of already-tested variations you can use.

[Jason Durall]

Originally Posted by frogspawner

Can we take it that means you're of the 'convert existing gamers' school?

I think that BRP has a dual-fold strength - some name-brand recognition among the existing gamer population, and an ease and flexibility of use that serve it well as an introductory game.

I am stupefied when I see people trying to characterize D&D as an "entry-level" game.

[Jason Durall]

Originally Posted by frogspawner

You're not saying "suggest it to Dustin", so do you mean there's one already underway...?

I am not saying anything.

Originally Posted by Jack Tar

From Jason's blog, I'm hoping his "secret" BRP projects are just this, plus a referee's screen. I'm REALLY hoping for the latter.

I am not working on a referee's screen. There's not much writing involved there, and that would come from Chaosium.

Originally Posted by jarulf

And I was speculating it was RQIII style magic

I am not working on a magic book. No core rules or rules expansions for me for a long while.

There are only so many hours in a day, and I'm balancing a full-time job, some other freelance, a novel, and being a husband and father. And my wife is after me to write a teleplay or screenplay for the Austin Film Festival next month...

I'm swamped.

[jarulf]

Originally Posted by Jason Durall

I am not working on a magic book. No core rules or rules expansions for me for a long while.

I can see that with the main BRP book near store shelves, you feel you've had enough of core rules for a while.

But I'd be very surprised if a magic book doesn't appear from someone, sometime. This forum is full of writers it seems, one can hope one of them caves and writes it.

[frogspawner]

Originally Posted by Jason Durall

I am not saying anything.

Good - twice. The fewer words the better in this case.

Originally Posted by Jason Durall

I am stupefied when I see people trying to characterize D&D as an "entry-level" game.

And who's the Man to show 'em what 'entry level' should really be about?

Originally Posted by RosenMcStern

This is a RQ2 limitation. All other BRP variations do not suffer from it. Ever wondered why there have been three new editions of RQ (ok, one was never published, let's say two) after RQ2? Maybe some problems were solved in them.

Hang on... RQ3, RQ4/AiG(unpublished), and... oh, I get it. Nah, the other one mostly introduced problems.

[NickMiddleton]

Originally Posted by jarulf

I can see that with the main BRP book near store shelves, you feel you've had enough of core rules for a while.

I noticed Jason said:

I am not working on a magic book. No core rules or rules expansions for me for a long while.

(my emphasis)...

But I'd be very surprised if a magic book doesn't appear from someone, sometime. This forum is full of writers it seems, one can hope one of them caves and writes it.

To be honest, I have both RQIII and the BRP monographs - I'm writing up one thing at present using the BRP monographs as a reference and that'll have to do for the moment.

As for the quick start / intro idea - we did discuss it in the Play test group IIRC and it's clearly a good idea - in some ways what would be really cool would be to have several brief scenarios with pre-gens to show case the system in different genres / styles... If you haven't seen it before, take a look at the Call of Cthulhu quick start rules which is a pretty good illustration of what can be done.

Cheers,

Nick Middleton

[frogspawner]

Originally Posted by NickMiddleton

If you haven't seen it before, take a look at the Call of Cthulhu quick start rules which is a pretty good illustration of what can be done.

Where? A-ha!

What a grotesque and blasphemously cyclopean bulk! 22 pages?? I'm sure it's quality stuff (I'll read it later) but can no-one at Chaosium edit? I think 4, or 8 tops, would be more like it... Something to give away free, something to put through all the neigbourhood's letter-boxes... (ok, perhaps not Cthulhu, in that case!)