BRP as a first game vs. "converting" gamers --

[GerallKahla]

Hello all -

I'm curious about how to give BRP a broader audience among gamers. We, as a culture, are all getting a bit older. And it would be nice to have new gamers come in and sort out how to use this set of rules in the hobby.

From the perspective of my early gaming, BRP was one of my first non-D&D games. It helped me to think of roleplaying in a different light; allowing a fairly flexible rules-set to be used for playing archetypes (RuneQuest) and horror games (Call of Cthulhu).

I'm not interested in BRP becoming the only thing played; that's not reasonable. I am, however, interested in passing the system on to other gamers. Giving them another, very versatile and interesting tool for their kit.

Do you think giving beginning gamers exposure to the system would be more profitable than trying to get gamers who already have preferences and habits to use the system?

Please, let me know what you think - Thanks in advance!

[Skunkape]

One thing to do, assuming you can get players to sign up, to help broaden the exposure of BRP is to run games at conventions or gaming stores. A short scenario could generate possible interest with new players. Also, introduce the system to the group you normally play with.

Currently, my group has been using various D20 systems only, but when the current campaign I'm running ends, the next game I run will be a BRP game!

[PK Games]

Originally Posted by Skunkape

One thing to do, assuming you can get players to sign up, to help broaden the exposure of BRP is to run games at conventions or gaming stores. A short scenario could generate possible interest with new players. Also, introduce the system to the group you normally play with.

Currently, my group has been using various D20 systems only, but when the current campaign I'm running ends, the next game I run will be a BRP game!

Im planning on hitting Origins (Columbus, Ohio) this year and will be toting along Berlin '61, some 40K BRP Ive been working on and maybe other BRP/GORE style games. I will be there everyday and for the first time ever, my trusty co-gamers wont be there.

My old group from college usually meet up yearly at Origins to kick back a few beers, terrorize the vendors and play a game or two, but they all seem to be occupied this year. A few will be in and out. So I should have time to claim a hall table and play some games.

[Jack Tar]

Originally Posted by GerallKahla

Do you think giving beginning gamers exposure to the system would be more profitable than trying to get gamers who already have preferences and habits to use the system?

To directly answer your question, yes, I suspect exposing new gamers to a system will be "more profitable" for that particular system than exposing established players to the same system. This is simply because there is often (usually?) an 'investment' in time and mental energy by established players in one or more systems and so a natural degree of resistance when it comes to learning yet another system (e.g., I’m avoiding learning the Ubiquity system from Hollow Earth Expedition, because I want to concentrate on BRP and get to know it well).

However, having said this, I'm not sure why you want to address this particular dichotomy. What's wrong with proselytising the BRP system to both new and established players? My suggested selling point to both is that it is ‘elegant’, relatively simple and transparent, and well established and therefore robust. Long may she sail

[GerallKahla]

For the record, I belong to a group with 3 GMs who rotate the duty across their plots. Each GM presents a 5 - 10 session plot to the group, and we choose 2 plots to play.

One week, the first plot is run. The next, one of my cohorts will run theirs. We each have several potential plots, and when one arch ends, our group decides on the next to be played. Some plots are set in the same setting and game (where you can play an old character again); some are unique. It all depends on what the players are interested in at the time one of the plots ends.

All of the games I run use BRP (of one version or another). So, my group is already familiar with the system and enjoy it.

Originally Posted by Jack Tar

However, having said this, I'm not sure why you want to address this particular dichotomy. What's wrong with proselytising the BRP system to both new and established players? My suggested selling point to both is that it is ‘elegant’, relatively simple and transparent, and well established and therefore robust. Long may she sail

Specifically, I am concerned about conventions.

There's nothing quite like having a group of unknown players at your table (some complete newbies, some veteran BRP'ers, others of unknown allegiances), running a game and having the d20-fan complain the game isn't like theirs. Considering the odds of a completely new gamer getting exposure to the BRP system is much less than that same person finding a d20 book at the local bookseller, I want to make a clean first-impression!

I ask because I'm thinking of advertising with my FLGS for "new gamers" to run BRP for. I'm trying to keep this kind of gamer-society exposure to a minimum.

Also, like mentioned before, there is a real inertia to overcome when trying to present a new system to gamers. I even feel it myself. I don't want to play in systems other than BRP, typically. (Even with the group described above, I find myself having to play in systems that these other GMs want to run.)

Does any of this make sense?

[Jason Durall]

I'm hoping that I can make it to Gen Con with Chaosium's delegation.

Whether they'll have me as a booth monkey, or if I'll (hopefully) be running non-stop demos of BRP has yet to be determined.

[frogspawner]

Originally Posted by Jason Durall

...non-stop demos of BRP...

"What do we want?" "BRP!" "When do want it?" "NOW!!" Yes, that might get more of an audience!

Originally Posted by Jason Durall

I'm hoping that I can make it to Gen Con with Chaosium's delegation.

Can we take it that means you're of the 'convert existing gamers' school?

Originally Posted by GerallKahla

Do you think giving beginning gamers exposure to the system would be more profitable than trying to get gamers who already have preferences and habits to use the system?

About equal, I reckon. Yes, there are quite a large number of D&D players out there due for an upgrade to BRP, but also I think there are more computer game players (whom I don't count as RPG gamers) who could be turned-on to the social pleasure of 'real' games fairly easily.

Originally Posted by GerallKahla

Also, like mentioned before, there is a real inertia to overcome when trying to present a new system to gamers. I even feel it myself. I don't want to play in systems other than BRP, typically. (Even with the group described above, I find myself having to play in systems that these other GMs want to run.)
Does any of this make sense?

Perfectly. I'm pretty much in the same position. Life is short - why waste time with inferior systems? And yet, I'm facing the grim prospect of having to play D&D3.5, after the BRP-like adventure I'm currently running finishes, just because one of the guys wants to run something and has played lots of 3.5 previously and isn't confident of GM-ing a d100 game...

Originally Posted by Jack Tar

My suggested selling point to both is that it is ‘elegant’, relatively simple and transparent, and well established and therefore robust.

I worry that the new BRP book, fine though it is, may hide the system's simplicity (and hence elegance) due to sheer size.

Originally Posted by Skunkape

A short scenario could generate possible interest with new players.

Yes, definitely.

So I think an updated version of the original 16-page "Basic RolePlaying: An Introductory Guide", with bare-bones rules and a really short scenario or two could do the job. Less than 16 pages, preferably, and give it away free...

[darkheart]

You kinda of want to be careful of what version of BRP you are running. While I am a great fan of Runequest 2nd ed I am seeing a number of flaws in it now that I am running it for a new group.

This new group consists of
One RQ veteren who was pushing for me to run the game.
One rpg veteren who believe you can't beat AD&D 2nd ed rules compedium.
One rpg beginner who has watched games more than played
And lastly one 'whats the rpg thing' newbie.

The most 'observatioins' have come from the complete newbie and the D&D player.

RQ faults as we have been finding them
Character creation - randomly rolled stats, narrow focused and unballanced previous experinece system, little to be done to tweek the character with quirks/abilities etc.

Cults and Skills - I never noticed before how limited the number of non cult skills were available. This can limit people as much if not more than D&D classes.

Learning through experience - While this is still one of the better skill reward systems out there, it is still a bit limited that using a skill succesfully once within a week is the same as using the skill 100 times within the week.


The best response to the game has come from the two least experienced players. Probably because every gamers has their prefered system. I know i complain that i can learn how to climb ropes by beating a monster over the head with my sword when playing D&D.

[Jason Durall]

Originally Posted by frogspawner

So I think an updated version of the original 16-page "Basic RolePlaying: An Introductory Guide", with bare-bones rules and a really short scenario or two could do the job.

What a marvelous idea...

[frogspawner]

Originally Posted by Jason Durall

What a marvelous idea...

You're not saying "suggest it to Dustin", so do you mean there's one already underway...?