Official Cover and Release Announcement

[NickMiddleton]

Nah, re-read Jason's posts up thread - BOTH are copying Da Vinci's "Vetruvian Man" aka "Measure of Man" - it's a very well known image - see here .

Nick

[Jason Durall]

Originally Posted by dracopticon

BTW, I spotted a possible (unintentional?) inspiration to the new BRP Core book in a Warhammer 40K supplement on this page:

Originally Posted by NickMiddleton

Nah, re-read Jason's posts up thread - BOTH are copying Da Vinci's "Vetruvian Man" aka "Measure of Man" - it's a very well known image - see here .

If you'll look upthread, you'll see that the date of my suggestion to Chaosium was 10/15/07, about three and a half months before Dark Heresy shipped.

While I would have loved to have had my hands on a copy of Dark Heresy back in October, such was not the case.

[Ars Mysteriorum]

Originally Posted by Jason Durall

While I would have loved to have had my hands on a copy of Dark Heresy back in October, such was not the case.

You know, it's a very pretty book, but the game somehow lacks the charm and depth (despite a ridiculously deep setting) of WFRP. Still, it's a game, the system works, the possibilities (within the limited scope provided) are manifold, the critical hit charts make me snort with happy laughter.

Many people gripe about the limitations of the significantly reduced number of career paths. I disagree with all that. With a proper GM limiting players from taking absolutely every ability a path presents (which would really be ridiculous powergaming... I don't think players are MEANT to take every single skill, just like in WFRP), there are just as many possible takes on the careers to be comparable to WFRP. Also, by focusing on talents, rather than hard characteristic advancement, it makes what can be done with a character's characteristics much more robust. Yes, the base numbers look lower, but put a gun in the hands of a Guardsman acolyte with a 45% BS, and, with wise selection of talents in the Guardsman's advancement tree and the proper actions taken, the character is hot, projectile-fueled death with limbs a-flying.

Ahem. Back on topic.

I was well aware of the Vetruvian Man images in both books. Nowhere in my mind did the idea of books copying each other ever occur. It's a very famous drawing for its scientific and metaphorical examination of the possibilities of the human body. One of my favorite renditions of this was the DaVinci Virus in the movie Hackers. It had an Italian accent, after all.

[Ars Mysteriorum]

And I eat my own words.

Anyone heard of JAGS?

Here, I'll post the pictures here for your viewing.

From the title page of JAGS Revised, a universal RPG system by Marco Chacon (published in 2006).



BRP's new logo.



Compare the guns. Look at the tentacle compared to the tail. I am aware that the Vetruvian Man is a popularized image... but the similarities here are so much more than a little suspicious.

[Jason Durall]

Originally Posted by Ars Mysteriorum

Anyone heard of JAGS?

I'm going to plead ignorance on that one... as you're talking about a pretty obscure game.

I'd heard briefly of it a while ago, and saw the cover when someone posted it on rpg.net (which, if I recall correctly, has a bunch of multi-genre guys arrayed on something that looked like a circular chessboard), but I've never seen inside the book.

Is it even in print?

[Jason Durall]

I should also note that my biggest fear was that it would be too close to the logo for Hero Games (a guy with outstretched arms in a hexagon), but am happy that there's no resemblance.

[Ars Mysteriorum]

Originally Posted by Jason Durall

I'm going to plead ignorance on that one... as you're talking about a pretty obscure game.

I'd heard briefly of it a while ago, and saw the cover when someone posted it on rpg.net (which, if I recall correctly, has a bunch of multi-genre guys arrayed on something that looked like a circular chessboard), but I've never seen inside the book.

Is it even in print?

If by "obscure" you mean "award-winning," I agree. It won the Indie award for the best freely available RPG as well as being a runner up for the best support for an RPG. Certainly some people were giving it a look for it to receive recognition.

We are speaking of the same book, and yes it is currently available as a pdf from the website (freely, as stated above) and from lulu.com.

[frogspawner]

All the more reason to buy your copy of BRP1 as soon as possible! (Before this Marco Chacon sues and they have to be pulped...)

[NickMiddleton]

Originally Posted by Ars Mysteriorum

And I eat my own words.

Anyone heard of JAGS?

Here, I'll post the pictures here for your viewing.

...

Compare the guns. Look at the tentacle compared to the tail. I am aware that the Vetruvian Man is a popularized image... but the similarities here are so much more than a little suspicious.

I have a copy of JAGS and Wonderland somewhere in PDF and I have read them both but hadn't made the connection to it until you posted but beyond the suggestion that DaVinci's heir's might sue (albeit I'm pretty sure that his original is out of copyright anywhere in the world, what with it being a bit more than seventy years since his death) I don't see anything to be suspicious of - so two people independently came up with the idea of using Da Vinci's "Vetruvian Man" as the basis for an image promoting a multi-genre RPG - big deal. As Jason rightly alluded to, BOTH could be construed as copying Hero games Logo, which itself clearly echoes the DaVinci pic but was around before the JAGS illustration and the BRP cover.

And whilst the JAGS and BRP images are more closely derived from DaVinci's original than something like the HERO Games logo, they are clearly different executions of a similar concept, nothing more. They have different numbers of limbs / appendages, the weapons are different (the JAGS chap appears to be holding some sort of revolver), the armour is distributed differently, the BRP has a tentacle coming in...

*shrug* I really don't see an issue here...

Cheers,

Nick

[Jason Durall]

Originally Posted by Ars Mysteriorum

If by "obscure" you mean "award-winning," I agree. It won the Indie award for the best freely available RPG as well as being a runner up for the best support for an RPG. Certainly some people were giving it a look for it to receive recognition.

I'm not trying to sound obtuse here, but I've never even heard of the "Indie award" and I'm familiar with the Origins Awards, the Diana Jones Awards, and the Ennies.

I don't see a point of discussing this further, since you're apparently trying to argue that I'm more familiar with something than I actually am.