The Combat Round

[frogspawner]

Originally Posted by Dredj

Are there any rules in the new BRP book about non-round combat rounds?

Originally Posted by Triff

Nope! BUT, if you have any, please do share!

Do you know the EnGarde combat system? I think that's a good "non-round combat rounds" method.
For those who don't know it, you specify particular manoevres like Slash, Cut, Lunge, Jump-back, Kick, etc. Each has a set sequence, including rest/recovery/preparation time, lasting a variable number of (what I presume to be) seconds. Cross-referencing the participants' actions at the moment a given move strikes home determines the exact damage.

[Puck]

Yes, it's considered a non-combat action. I felt it made more sense that combat attacks resolved faster than a move from a to b. I felt it would fit well game-mechanic wise also. Moving during combat didn't come up that much during playtesting though. Is there any problems you can see with this? What do you feel is strange with it?

I cannot see any problems at all, it may work even better. The reason it seems a little strange is that most systems I have ever played with had movement before attack.
I am kind of trying to think what would happen if in your example Roman had to close on the guard from a distance rather than coming upon them from around a corner. That is more typical of the kind of combats I run across in role-playing. I imagine guard one would get an extra shot off as Roman closed to close combat range. Then both guards would get an attack in round 2.
One question am curious about is how far a character could move in one strike rank. BRP has characters moving 30 meters per combat turn and 5 meters for free if they attack.

I am not really trying to be nit-picky, but I really like your system and I know this kind of thing will come up with players (I often use chits and a grid map for role-playing where movement becomes important).

[Dredj]

Originally Posted by frogspawner

Do you know the EnGarde combat system? I think that's a good "non-round combat rounds" method.
For those who don't know it, you specify particular manoevres like Slash, Cut, Lunge, Jump-back, Kick, etc. Each has a set sequence, including rest/recovery/preparation time, lasting a variable number of (what I presume to be) seconds. Cross-referencing the participants' actions at the moment a given move strikes home determines the exact damage.

Do you have a link to this?

[frogspawner]

Originally Posted by Dredj

Do you have a link to this?

Tables for the "En Garde!" system can be found here, the ones for combat are on page 2.

The way it works is each side initially writes down a sequence of routines which lasts for at least 12 seconds (e.g. Block, Block, Lunge, Slash, Furious Lunge = BBxLxxSLxxCxxx). Second-by-second actions are then compared by cross-referncing on Duelling Table B. I believe the higher DEX has the advantage of only having to give a 6-second sequence initially (or something like that) - thus being able to see what the other guy is doing and react accordingly. It's a system designed for Pencil-and-Paper, ideal for PBM but a bit cumbersome for FTF.

A few years ago, I tried combining it with BRP-style d100 attacks/parries/damage - but that was really cumbersome. The VBScript page I did to automate it is here. To run it, select opponents, click "?" for each of them to randomly-choose some routines, then click "Start". That'll show you my descriptions and combat resolution, and should give a fair idea of how proper En Garde! works. (If both survive the first 'round', click "?" again to add more routines to their sequence, and "Start" again.)

[Mugen]

Exalted v2 (among others...) have an interesting way of handling combat without rounds. It is quite similar to RQ2/3's Strike Ranks, but without round limits to Strike ranks.

Each action have a different initiative value, which is in fact the number of "ticks" you must wait before your next action.

In Exalted v2 logic, a 2-handed weapon will be slow and therefore have an initiative of 6 whereas a 1-handed weapon will have an initiative of 4.

So, if you begin attacking at tick 0 and don't do anything but attack, you will strike at ticks 4, 8, 12 with a 1-handed weapon, and ticks 6, 12, 18 with a 2-handed sword.

Note that this system may be cumbersome if some intelligent bookkeeping method is not used.
Note also that attack speeds should not be too closely tied on one's stats to avoid skilled dagger users with high DEX attacking each tick...

[NickMiddleton]

BRP did roundless combat in Ringworld, and Niall Shapero also tried a smiliar system in Other Suns - it's a while since I read (and longer since I played) either system, but my memory is that they were both a book keeping nightmare that actually added little.

Cheers,

Nick Middleton

[Trifletraxor]

Originally Posted by Puck

One question am curious about is how far a character could move in one strike rank. BRP has characters moving 30 meters per combat turn and 5 meters for free if they attack.

If using one Action to move (non-combat action), I'd say the character's MOV in meters would be the distance - so 10 meters for humans.
If using the entire Combat Round to move (both Actions), I'd say 30 meters.

I am kind of trying to think what would happen if in your example Roman had to close on the guard from a distance rather than coming upon them from around a corner. That is more typical of the kind of combats I run across in role-playing. I imagine guard one would get an extra shot off as Roman closed to close combat range. Then both guards would get an attack in round 2.

Example:
Roman Batou, a half-mad zealot wearing light battle armor and wielding a vibrosword, has just been been spotted by two guards 7 meters away. Guard one has a laser pistol, while guard two is wielding a stun lance. Instead of following their orders to drop his weapon, Roman run screaming towards them with his sword high:
Combat Round 1, Strike Rank 1: Guard one with the laser pistol (ROF 3 missile weapon), attacks first and hits, but fails to penetrate Romans armor. Guard two with the stun lance awaits Romans charge (chose not to act in Strike Rank 1). Roman move in on the guards (non-combat action). Strike Rank 2: Guard one fires again with his laser pistol, hits and Roman takes 5 points of damage going through his armor, a minor wound. Guard two attacks Roman with his stun lance again (long range melee weapon), which Roman chose to ignore, and thankfully misses. Roman then attacks gurad 2 with his sword (medium range melee weapon), but guard two makes a successfull parry with his lance. Roman and guard two have both used up their Actions. As guard one fired on both SR 1 and 2 with a ROF 3 weapon, he is entitled to a third shot on SR 3. Strike Rank 3: Guard one fires again. Another hit, this one a special doing 6 points of damage through Roman's armor. With only 2 general hit points left, Roman drops unconscious, and later awakens at a facility for the criminally insane.

I am not really trying to be nit-picky, but I really like your system and I know this kind of thing will come up with players (I often use chits and a grid map for role-playing where movement becomes important).

The system have only been playtested once, so being nit-picky only helps to develop it further and illuminate any flaws that need fixing.

SGL.

[Puck]

Thanks. That is about how I thought it would happen. The cool thing is that it keeps the whole thing simple and organized while adding the weapon reach.

[Kloster]

Originally Posted by NickMiddleton

BRP did roundless combat in Ringworld, and Niall Shapero also tried a smiliar system in Other Suns - it's a while since I read (and longer since I played) either system, but my memory is that they were both a book keeping nightmare that actually added little.

Cheers,

Nick Middleton

I've never played Other Suns, but my rememberance of Ringworld is also of a lot of bookkeeping (too much for my tastes, and I LOVE RQIII, Hero and Car Wars).

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

[Kloster]

Originally Posted by frogspawner

Tables for the "En Garde!" system can be found here, the ones for combat are on page 2.

The way it works is each side initially writes down a sequence of routines which lasts for at least 12 seconds (e.g. Block, Block, Lunge, Slash, Furious Lunge = BBxLxxSLxxCxxx). Second-by-second actions are then compared by cross-referncing on Duelling Table B. I believe the higher DEX has the advantage of only having to give a 6-second sequence initially (or something like that) - thus being able to see what the other guy is doing and react accordingly. It's a system designed for Pencil-and-Paper, ideal for PBM but a bit cumbersome for FTF.

A few years ago, I tried combining it with BRP-style d100 attacks/parries/damage - but that was really cumbersome. The VBScript page I did to automate it is here. To run it, select opponents, click "?" for each of them to randomly-choose some routines, then click "Start". That'll show you my descriptions and combat resolution, and should give a fair idea of how proper En Garde! works. (If both survive the first 'round', click "?" again to add more routines to their sequence, and "Start" again.)

Several years ago, we tried to replace the combat turn of En Garde! by one inspired from Flashing Blades, because, even for PBM, it is cumbersome, but we reverted back, because, at least it is working fine (for pbm).

Runequestement votre,

Kloster