Non-Caster Incentive

[soltakss]

One of the way I get over this is by limiting the number of skill/experience rolls the PCs get. I do this by using Hero Points as Experience Points. So PCs can choose where to concentrate their skill attempts and tend to focus on their own speciality areas.

What I don't do is to restrict PCs by caste/profession, unless they are forbidden from learning a skill for specific reason. So, healers may be forbidden to learn combat spells/skills, for example. There are too many examples in Fantasy fiction of wizards being good in combat and fighters being able to use some magic. It also doesn't make much sense from a background point of view, unless there are in-game reasons why the restrictions are in place.

If magic-using characters are handled well by the GM they spend all their time scrabbling around for POW or other magical fuel to gain more powerful spells and find that the other PCs outstrip them in other areas.

[Lord Twig]

In our RQ3 game, characters that wanted to concentrate on sorcery rarely wore armor because they didn't want to take the 20-30% hit on their sorcery skills. Also, during combat they spent time casting spells instead of attacking with weapons, so their weapon skills rarely went up.

The one character that practiced sorcery and was a primary fighter rarely cast spells in combat and spent much of his training time on combat skills so quickly lagged behind the primary spell casters in magical skills.

Really it worked fairly well.

[frogspawner]

Originally Posted by soltakss

One of the way I get over this is by limiting the number of skill/experience rolls the PCs get.

Same here, by simply imposing a limit of INT ticks (experience checks).

Originally Posted by Lord Twig

The one character that practiced sorcery and was a primary fighter rarely cast spells in combat and spent much of his training time on combat skills so quickly lagged behind the primary spell casters in magical skills. Really it worked fairly well.

So would you say such limits are unnecessary?

[Lord Twig]

In my experience, yes. Limiting skill checks and skills were unnecessary in our game.

By the time my sorcerer had the required skills to claim the status of Magus he had a 90% chance to hit with his primary weapon, staff with damage boost 10 on it. Our primary warrior had about 200% in his primary skills and did far more damage.

While the warrior was heavily armored my sorcerer relied on a damage resist 20. In order for armor to make a significant difference to any attack that could routinely get through his damage resist it would effect his skills so badly that it wasn't worth it.

[frogspawner]

Originally Posted by Lord Twig

In my experience, yes. Limiting skill checks and skills were unnecessary in our game.
By the time my sorcerer had the required skills to claim the status of Magus he had a 90% chance to hit with his primary weapon... Our primary warrior had about 200% in his primary skills...

Thanks. I may drop my 'INT ticks' limit then. So long as there are enough skills for each character-role to usefully develop, it may not be the problem I feared after all...

What stopped your sorceror developing his weapon skill as fast as the primary warrior? I ask because some folks here might, like me, consider allowing combat-related Powers to warrior-types, perhaps tied to particular weapon-skill percentages (e.g. 100%, 150%, etc). But if such Powers were available, wouldn't the spell-specialists be able to get them just as easily (if they actually had that reason to try)? Which would defeat the object of "making Fighters more Fun"...

[Tywyll]

Originally Posted by frogspawner

Thanks. I may drop my 'INT ticks' limit then. So long as there are enough skills for each character-role to usefully develop, it may not be the problem I feared after all...

What stopped your sorceror developing his weapon skill as fast as the primary warrior? I ask because some folks here might, like me, consider allowing combat-related Powers to warrior-types, perhaps tied to particular weapon-skill percentages (e.g. 100%, 150%, etc). But if such Powers were available, wouldn't the spell-specialists be able to get them just as easily (if they actually had that reason to try)? Which would defeat the object of "making Fighters more Fun"...

My intent, at least as I am thinking now, will probably require something from the player in order to activate. In the case of special combat abilities, I'll probably charge the character hero Points or perhaps even POW, so its a definite effort on the part of the character to learn them. So in the case of casters, they will have to choose between using those HP or POW for magical abilities or combat. It doesn't /stop/ a caster from learning them, but that's not really my desire. It makes someone who focuses have more potency where they focus, and I think that the casters will be busy spending their resources on magical stuff.

That's my initial thought anyway.

[frogspawner]

Originally Posted by Tywyll

That's my initial thought anyway.

And a good thought it is, too! At least, I hope so, 'cos I was thinking on similar lines. Reaching, say, 100%+ in a relevant combat skill would allow a character to go on a sort of HeroQuest (must find a new name for them... PowerQuest?) involving sacrifice of (permanent) POW (and maybe a mini-adventure if the GM fancies); thereafter, the Power gained would still cost Power Points to activate.
(BTW, BRP doesn't have 'Hero Points'. What it calls 'Fate Points' are in fact just power points spent on various meta-game effects - like spells everyone would have. I however would rather restrict their use, as I said before, to characters with skills at a more heroic level, like 100%+.)

[TRose]

Originally Posted by Lord Twig

In my experience, yes. Limiting skill checks and skills were unnecessary in our game.

By the time my sorcerer had the required skills to claim the status of Magus he had a 90% chance to hit with his primary weapon, staff with damage boost 10 on it. Our primary warrior had about 200% in his primary skills and did far more damage.

While the warrior was heavily armored my sorcerer relied on a damage resist 20. In order for armor to make a significant difference to any attack that could routinely get through his damage resist it would effect his skills so badly that it wasn't worth it.

I was going to bring weight penalty too.
Another thing you could do is
1) have certain materials , like Iron, have negative effect on spell casting if the caster has any on his body. have say a -1 to cast a spell for every pound or even once he has on his person.
2) Have certain spells belong to certain magic collages, guilds , societies , etc and these groups are all have certain requirements to join.
3) Magic user could be required to register with he local government After all if you where the local ruler would you not want to keep an eye on any wizard that walked into your Duchy. So while your warrior can just head over to the local tavern when he enters town your mage has to go deal with those *&^@# bureaucrats at the Royal Ministry of Magic.
And please remember we require 3 copies of all forms , hand written and not duplicated by Magic , except forms 1a , 1c 4f 7a and 21d of which we require 5 copies.

[Tywyll]

Originally Posted by frogspawner

And a good thought it is, too! At least, I hope so, 'cos I was thinking on similar lines. Reaching, say, 100%+ in a relevant combat skill would allow a character to go on a sort of HeroQuest (must find a new name for them... PowerQuest?) involving sacrifice of (permanent) POW (and maybe a mini-adventure if the GM fancies); thereafter, the Power gained would still cost Power Points to activate.
(BTW, BRP doesn't have 'Hero Points'. What it calls 'Fate Points' are in fact just power points spent on various meta-game effects - like spells everyone would have. I however would rather restrict their use, as I said before, to characters with skills at a more heroic level, like 100%+.)

Hey,

No, I've caught that distinction, though I'll probably use Hero Points from MRQ. Depending on the various ways in which Fate Points can be used, I will probably mix and match a bit. The ability to ablate damage will probably be there for everyone, just due to the lethality of the system. The other effects will have to wait to be categorized once I've read them. I'll probably also mix in super powers (minor) for such things.

That's a good point about the 'Power Quest'. I'm not sure what I'll call it in my setting, or how it will work out. It might simply be something that anyone who has truly mastered an endeavor can achieve... or I might make it require magic or myth to unlock. Not quite certain. Since my setting has been in a number of different systems at one point or antoher, including 3rd Ed wherein Feats just came to you over time, I think it depends on how awesome/overwhelming the Fate Point powers are.

[Lord Twig]

Originally Posted by frogspawner

What stopped your sorceror developing his weapon skill as fast as the primary warrior? I ask because some folks here might, like me, consider allowing combat-related Powers to warrior-types, perhaps tied to particular weapon-skill percentages (e.g. 100%, 150%, etc). But if such Powers were available, wouldn't the spell-specialists be able to get them just as easily (if they actually had that reason to try)? Which would defeat the object of "making Fighters more Fun"...

My sorcerer's weapon skills did not go up for a number of reasons.

1. He avoided armor as it subtracted far too much from his sorcery skills.

2. When combat started the first thing he did was cast a spell of some kind, instead of running up and hitting something with his weapon.

3. When we had some down-time for training he trained up his sorcery skills while everyone else trained up combat skills.

This, of course, means that you need a system where magic skills are practiced/trained up. If you use the BRP sorcery system where spells 'just work' then there is no reason to practice them, you can just train your weapon skills instead.