Vampires that don't suck--hopefully

[Tywyll]

Originally Posted by soltakss

I'd give Vampires a VAM Characteristic that starts at 3D6 and increases with age (maybe 1 per 100 years) and the number of victims the vampire drinks blood (maybe 1 per 100 victims).

What would VAM do? It would add to the Vampires Strength roll, perhaps even add to the Vampire's STR or CON. Vampires would have to roll their VAMx5% (Vampire Roll) to do Vampiric things such as changing form. Vampires can last their VAM in days without feeding, but must succeed in a Vampire Roll or lose their VAM in Fatigue Points.

That makes ancient vampires very powerful as they would have a very high VAM score.

VAM (or whatever you call it) shouldn't be random. It should start at X depending on whatever it represents (the power of the sire? the evil of the mortal being embraced? every vampire being equal when first created?) then rise according to whatever govern's such things.

It could be more like an Allegiance score than an attribute, with break points (every 10, every 20?) the vampire gets 'stuff'.

That's how I'd handle it.

[Dredj]

Originally Posted by soltakss

Weak vampires that a normal healthy mortal could take? No way. Vampires should be stronger than mortals, quicker than mortals and should not consider a normal mortal a threat, except in daytime.

Most vampire films/stories/myths have vampires as being physically impressive with particular weaknesses. Heroes traditionally kill vampires by exploiting those weaknesses or by ganging up on them.

I'm all for strong vampires. The film Monster Club has some nice scenes, particularly the one where Dracula wades through a number of attacking police with consumate ease.

Vampires suffering blood-starvation might be weak, depending on their age.

My idea of "weak" vampires is so that they don't become CGI-style supermen, like you mentioned. When I mentioned them in my brainstorming session, I was thinking of vampires before Dracula was written. They could have beyond normal human strength; some could even walk around in the daylight with their vampiric powers coming out at nighttime. But, above all else, they had to keep their true natures hidden from the mortals around them. That could lead to some real role-playing, possibly. The vampire would still be formidable, but someone that's quite skilled in martial arts could still put a serious whupping on the vampire (unless, of course, the vampire is also a martial artist). And you've mentioned the fact that most vampire stories are resolved when people gang up and exploit the vampire's weakness.

Dracula had some formiddable powers, but he was quite sloppy in keeping his vampiric nature hidden. In fact, It seemed to me he over-relied on his powers. Probably due to the fact that the people living around his castle in Transylvania were so cowed by him, they never gave him a real threat. Thus, he never had to use much in the way of subterfuge. At least that's what I got from reading Dracula, years ago. But I would also give rules so that vampires could also have major advantages over mortals. Some of my brainstorming revolved around the idea that some groups of players would just like to kick ass (having crappy jobs, etc., in their real lives) even if only for a one-shot game, here and there. Basically, it could be used as a release for some groups. Of course, the super powered vampires could also run up against very formidable monster foes for campaign play.

If this supplement/game should ever come to fruition, I would allow the GM to decide on what weaknesses a vampire has in the game.

Mostly,however, I was thinking of something more cerebral and took real planning from the players--almost like a spy game where the PCs would have to determine the weaknesses of their intended victims while pretending to be one of the crowd--with not much amiss--in order to get away with feasting on mortal blood.

I get the impression that what I'm thinking would make a better card/strategy game than rpg. But I would like to read more of other peoples' take on this.

[Tywyll]

Originally Posted by Dredj

My idea of "weak" vampires is so that they don't become CGI-style supermen, like you mentioned. When I mentioned them in my brainstorming session, I was thinking of vampires before Dracula was written. They could have beyond normal human strength; some could even walk around in the daylight with their vampiric powers coming out at nighttime. But, above all else, they had to keep their true natures hidden from the mortals around them. That could lead to some real role-playing, possibly. The vampire would still be formidable, but someone that's quite skilled in martial arts could still put a serious whupping on the vampire (unless, of course, the vampire is also a martial artist). And you've mentioned the fact that most vampire stories are resolved when people gang up and exploit the vampire's weakness.

Dracula had some formiddable powers, but he was quite sloppy in keeping his vampiric nature hidden. In fact, It seemed to me he over-relied on his powers. Probably due to the fact that the people living around his castle in Transylvania were so cowed by him, they never gave him a real threat. Thus, he never had to use much in the way of subterfuge. At least that's what I got from reading Dracula, years ago. But I would also give rules so that vampires could also have major advantages over mortals. Some of my brainstorming revolved around the idea that some groups of players would just like to kick ass (having crappy jobs, etc., in their real lives) even if only for a one-shot game, here and there. Basically, it could be used as a release for some groups. Of course, the super powered vampires could also run up against very formidable monster foes for campaign play.

If this supplement/game should ever come to fruition, I would allow the GM to decide on what weaknesses a vampire has in the game.

Mostly,however, I was thinking of something more cerebral and took real planning from the players--almost like a spy game where the PCs would have to determine the weaknesses of their intended victims while pretending to be one of the crowd--with not much amiss--in order to get away with feasting on mortal blood.

I get the impression that what I'm thinking would make a better card/strategy game than rpg. But I would like to read more of other peoples' take on this.

Depending on your mythos, there is no reason why each vampire couldn't have different weaknesses (Night's Edge, for cyberpunk 2020 took a similar approach). Each vampire's weakness might be unique to them, or perhaps to their line, depending on where vampires came from. So somebody might get all obsessive about counting grain, while another dies from a stake in the heart.

Also, depending on the time frame (is it modern day?) then the 'power' of the vampire can be very relative. Vampires might be more than a match for any human... in melee. However, guns can be a great equalizer. Perhaps while a bullet won't kill them, collecting too many will slow them down enough to be dealt with. So you lose the superhuman effect, and force the characters to be more methodical and thoughtful about it. Perhaps really ancient ones get to the point where this is not an issue, but younger ones can be stopped by a machine pistol on full auto... or a shotgun.

That forces players to be much more thoughtful, and not just rampage around.

[Dredj]

Originally Posted by Tywyll

Depending on your mythos, there is no reason why each vampire couldn't have different weaknesses (Night's Edge, for cyberpunk 2020 took a similar approach). Each vampire's weakness might be unique to them, or perhaps to their line, depending on where vampires came from. So somebody might get all obsessive about counting grain, while another dies from a stake in the heart.

Also, depending on the time frame (is it modern day?) then the 'power' of the vampire can be very relative. Vampires might be more than a match for any human... in melee. However, guns can be a great equalizer. Perhaps while a bullet won't kill them, collecting too many will slow them down enough to be dealt with. So you lose the superhuman effect, and force the characters to be more methodical and thoughtful about it. Perhaps really ancient ones get to the point where this is not an issue, but younger ones can be stopped by a machine pistol on full auto... or a shotgun.

That forces players to be much more thoughtful, and not just rampage around.

Those are some excellent points you made. I like your idea of giving each vampire a different weakness.

I was also thinking, as far as how vampires could relate to others of their kind, that they might not like others of their kind too much. This could lead to some very interesting Machiavellian-style role playing. It might be easier to use Mythic Game Master Emulator Mythic Game Master Emulator
for this than it would be to use a real GM. Since it would allow for the players to create the story as they go along. A good map of a city or town might be useful, though.

Here's what I'm thinking: Some sessions of gaming could have the vampires converge on a town or whatever for food. But one is going to be the top vampire that gets the whole food supply. Too many vampires are going to let the population know that there are vampires about, so the vampires are going to try and pin the blame on one another, while ingratiating themselves into human society. And not letting the mortals know that they know much about vampires, or are ones themselves.

Another idea that goes along with this would be that vampires can be created accidentally, but it's rare--otherwise the world would be overpopulated by vampires. However, the originating vampire is having really crappy die rolls thus allowing all the players to be vampires. And the characters can either band together and defeat the originating vampire before he/she kills them all, or they can all try and kill off each other with the originating vampire as a wild card. Also, if the vampires are allowed to create minions:humans that drink vampire blood and fall under the control of the vampire who's blood they drank--or simply gain the powers of the vampire and give fealty to the vampire they get the blood from. That might make for some interesting battles and other interactions.

I realise these may be best served for single gaming sessions, or for short campaigns. Maybe for longer campaigns, they can fight off wily vampires who invade their territory and all the vampires can have different weaknesses.

[Dredj]

Originally Posted by soltakss

If CoC were a monster-hunting game then I'd enjoy it a lot more than the current mythos/sanity-crushing game.

I think the sanity thing is a bit overdone in the game. It seems like most of the time the investigators know they're hunting monsters. Why would they lose so much of their sanity encountering something they kind of know they are going to run into in the first place? And, besides, how scary can a book really be (losing SAN from reading a book)?

[Triff]

One of my players lost 57 points of SAN last game session from watching a Great Old One. He's clearly going downhill towards the zero mark, but his insanities makes him more and more into a crazy opus dei monk (sort of cultist) battling devils for the lord, that way he stays playable.

(and cthulhu rising IS somewhat of a monster-hunting game. Combat armor and tactical assault rifles with grenade launchers help a lot!)

SGL.

[Dredj]

Originally Posted by Triff

(and cthulhu rising IS somewhat of a monster-hunting game. Combat armor and tactical assault rifles with grenade launchers help a lot!)

SGL.

Is Cthulhu Rising a BRP game, or easily converted to one?

[Dredj]

I realized that Cthulhu Rising is a monograph I own. I was thinking about another game:DriveThruRPG.com - Mongoose - Cthulhutech Main Rulebook

[Ars Mysteriorum]

Back on the idea of vampires that don't suck, I fully agree with Steve Darlington's ideas of vampires from Night's Dark Masters for WFRP2e.

Vampires have the classic weakness and strengths, but there's no telling which ones they have without proper research. This casts vampires in the role of a master villain. They're overwhelmingly powerful and inhuman (though just human enough to be creepy).

By rolling on random tables, certain weaknesses are chosen. It's then up to the players to discover the weaknesses (perhaps by raiding the tomb of an ancient vampire hunter who nearly bested the vampire in the past and kept a journal which contains the weaknesses of said vampire), finding a workable way to exploit them, all the while fighting off the vampire's minions every step of the way.

It makes for one hell of a dramatic endgame once the vampire finally reveals itself to the players.

[Dredj]

Originally Posted by Ars Mysteriorum

Back on the idea of vampires that don't suck, I fully agree with Steve Darlington's ideas of vampires from Night's Dark Masters for WFRP2e.

Vampires have the classic weakness and strengths, but there's no telling which ones they have without proper research. This casts vampires in the role of a master villain. They're overwhelmingly powerful and inhuman (though just human enough to be creepy).

By rolling on random tables, certain weaknesses are chosen. It's then up to the players to discover the weaknesses (perhaps by raiding the tomb of an ancient vampire hunter who nearly bested the vampire in the past and kept a journal which contains the weaknesses of said vampire), finding a workable way to exploit them, all the while fighting off the vampire's minions every step of the way.

It makes for one hell of a dramatic endgame once the vampire finally reveals itself to the players.

That sounds like a good book. Sometime when I have some extra money I'll have to buy it.
Amazon.com: Night's Dark Masters: A Guide to Vampires (Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay): Green Ronin: Books

I was thinking of the same thing with the tables. It's cool that someone already did that. It would definitely keep the players on their toes, and could make for a good investigative game.