Alternative Wizardry Systems

[peterb]

This post outlines two methods of incorporating spells that are originally designed to be used with the d20 game system into BRP/d100 games. Since there are a lot of material published for d20 and some of it is quite useful a conversion method could be quite handy - IMHO. The following is just a bare bone set of rules, I haven't even decided for my self which of these alternatives I like the best.

Method 1: Skill based system

• Each school of magic is a separate skill.
• Spells need not be memorized.
• Spells can be cast from books, at double the casting time.
• Each spell has a difficulty rating of 0 to 45 which is subtracted from the school skill level (d20 spell level x 5).
• Spells costs 1 mp per two d20 spell levels, rounded up, to cast. Thus 0-1:st lvl = 1 mp, 2 -3:rd lvl = 2 mp’s, etc.
• Spells can be manipulated by expending more magic points. Each expansion of area, range, duration or additional targets or missiles costs 1 magic points each. Example: by default the spell magic missile creates one magic missile, adding three extra missiles costs three additional magic points, for a total cost of 4 mp’s.
• A wizard can only manipulate an amount of magic points equal to school skill level / 10 (rounded to nearest whole number) at any given time. Example: a wizard with a skill of 63 can only manipulate 6 magic points. He couldn’t expand a fireball (a 2 mp spell) more than 4 points.
• Learning a spell is a two week task that has a chance of success equal to school skill – difficulty rating. A wizard with 55% skill would need to roll 40 or lower to learn the spell fireball (DR 15). A wizard may add a week to his studies and increase his chance of success by the average of his INT and POW (rounded to the nearest whole number) percentiles. Our wizard, with INT 14 and POW 15, could thus add 14 percentiles to his chance of learning the fireball spell.

Method 2: “Fire and Forget” system

• Casting a known, memorized, spell succeeds on a roll of 01-95. A 00 is still a fumble.
• Spells costs d20 spell level x 3 mp to cast.
• Expanding a spell costs 2 mp per expansion (see above).
• A wizard starts out with POW / 2 mp.
• Each 10 percentiles of skill in any spell school skill adds one mp.
• Learning a spell is a two week task that has a chance of success equal to school skill – difficulty rating. A wizard with 55% skill would need to roll 40 or lower to learn the spell fireball (DR 15). A wizard may add a week to his studies and increase his chance of success by the average of his INT and POW (rounded to the nearest whole number) percentiles. Our wizard, with INT 14 and POW 15, could thus add 14 percentiles to his chance of learning the fireball spell.

Method 2: “Fire and Forget” divine magic

• Casting a known, memorized, spell succeeds on a roll of 01-95. A 00 is still a fumble.
• Spells costs d20 spell level mp to cast.
• Expanding a spell costs 1 mp per expansion (see above).
• A Priest or Shaman has POW = mp.
• Spells are learned from Spell Spirits. Kult spirits normally has POW equal to (spell level + spell level d3). Normal Spell Spirits has POW equal to spell level d6. Example: a priest that wishes to learn a 2:nd level spell must fight with a spell spirit with POW 2d3+2. A shaman trying to learn the same spell must fight with a spell spirit with POW 2d6.

[frogspawner]

OK, you've shown yours, so I'll show mine...

Method 3: "Magic"-skill based system

• Mages have the skill of Magic, starting at roughly INT%
• Max Spell Level castable = Magic skill / 10 (drop fractions)
• Magic Points = (INT-2)/2 x Max Spell Level castable
• One spell per point of INT can be memorized.
• Spells costs 1 MP per spell level
• Spells can be intensified by expending more MP than the default (which is the spell level), up to the caster's Max Spell Level castable.
• The effects of a spell are as the D20 descriptions, but "level of caster" equals the number of MP expended.
• When casting a spell, make a Magic skill-roll: Success = normal success; Fail = Half Effect (damage/duration/overcoming-POW); Special = No MP loss; Critical = No MP loss and Double one effect; Fumble = roll on an amusing table...
• Learning a spell is a month-long task that has a chance of success equal to: (30 / (Spell Level+1)) x (Magic Skill - 10xSpell Level)
• Oh and, since it's difficult, Magic skill only increases 1% each time. Sorry!

And...

Method 4: "Holiness"-skill based system

• Priests have Holiness (aka Allegiance<religion>), starting at roughly POW%
• Max Spell Level invokable = Holiness skill / 10 (drop fractions)
• Magic Points = (POW-6)/2 x Max Spell Level invokable
• Spells (aka Miracles) do not require learning/memorizing/pre-booking - all the religion's spells are available
• Spells cost 1 MP per spell level
• Spells cannot be intensified by the invoker
• The effects of a spell are as the D20 descriptions, but "level of caster" equals the invoker's Max Spell Level castable.
• But beneficial miracles only have half-effect on non-worshippers
• When casting a spell, make a POWx5 roll: Success = normal success; Fail = no effect (no MP loss); and there are no special/criticals/fumbles.
• An Increase roll for Holiness may be attempted when the priest attempts increase rolls for FIVE cult skills and/or cult personality traits at once
• Oh and, since it's also difficult, Holiness skill only increases 1% each time, too. Sorry again!

[RosenMcStern]

Some interesting ideas. Things are heating up here.

[*]Magic Points = (INT-2)/2 x Max Spell Level castable

...
[*]Magic Points = (POW-6)/2 x Max Spell Level invokable

Why? Magic Points = POW is simple and effective. Do not fix what is not broken. Lower the MP cost for casting spells below your maximum level, instead!

Priests have Holiness (aka Allegiance<religion>), starting at roughly POW%

This i _do_ like! Way better than the Lore (Specific Theology) in MRQ.

Spells (aka Miracles) do not require learning/memorizing/pre-booking - all the religion's spells are available

Why? I think an appropriate Pilgrimage before being able to cast the spell (a minor HeroQuest in Glorantha) is a goodi idea. Having every priest with the same Holiness the same sounds not that good to me.

When casting a spell, make a POWx5 roll: Success = normal success; Fail = no effect (no MP loss); and there are no special/criticals/fumbles.

Why POWx5? Either you roll Holiness or you do not roll at all for a Divine Spell.

[tzunder]

I think a good d20 magic to BRP conversion set (or sets) is crucial.
These schema look like good broadbrush starters.

[Tywyll]

Originally Posted by RosenMcStern

Why? I think an appropriate Pilgrimage before being able to cast the spell (a minor HeroQuest in Glorantha) is a goodi idea. Having every priest with the same Holiness the same sounds not that good to me.

Though I can't speak for the writer, to me it is because the idea of the God giving you a specific spell is kind of silly. If God's work their miracles through you than they ought to be able to use what is best in a specific situation, rather than what the priest thinks he might need a week from now.

That's just me though. I'd prefer that Pow dedicated to the God becomes a pool of points from which they can draw (with GM's approval) spells from the God as they need them. it also keeps divine magic from being a definable resource (yes your god can heal, but for some reason, when you try to heal that wounded person, they don't grant you that ability... perhaps its in the god's interest that that person suffers, perhaps you've failed the god and are being punished, that's up to you to answer in the dark tea time of your soul).

[RosenMcStern]

Where did I mention that the priesthood teaches you divine spells? I said "pilgrimages" and "heroquests", i.e. actions that show directly to your god that you possess a particular virtue and so you are worthy to invoke a particular kind of miracle. The most common miracles should be immediately available to initiates (healing for compassionate gods, weapon blessings for war gods, etc.) while others might require some extra dedication before you can use the miracle. What use are "journeys to special holy spots" if the miracle that is connected to them is automatically learned when you attain a certain cult rank?

[Tywyll]

Originally Posted by RosenMcStern

Where did I mention that the priesthood teaches you divine spells? I said "pilgrimages" and "heroquests", i.e. actions that show directly to your god that you possess a particular virtue and so you are worthy to invoke a particular kind of miracle. The most common miracles should be immediately available to initiates (healing for compassionate gods, weapon blessings for war gods, etc.) while others might require some extra dedication before you can use the miracle. What use are "journeys to special holy spots" if the miracle that is connected to them is automatically learned when you attain a certain cult rank?

Sorry, when I said 'Priest' it was a typo, I meant 'God'.

Your worthiness to invoke the rituals comes from any manner of methods in which you prove yourself, embody your faith, etc, etc. If the GM wants a specific power to be difficult for a player to gain (say Resurrection) than it is withheld, per my example, until such time as the character has earned the right to utilize it (in what ever method the GM decides fits the deity). This should still be, in my opinion, a one off or perhaps use in pursuance of a goal of the faith, rather than something the character 'learns' and can use as they see fit.

[frogspawner]

Originally Posted by RosenMcStern

Why? Magic Points = POW is simple and effective. Do not fix what is not broken. Lower the MP cost for casting spells below your maximum level, instead!

I know - I was fixing the d20 system! In the hope of converting my pre-existing campaign (and players) I was trying to do it in easy stages. Maybe time for another step...

Originally Posted by RosenMcStern

This i _do_ like! Way better than the Lore (Specific Theology) in MRQ.

Yes, BRP's Allegiance is a delight - and I've already adopted it, as you see. Since it's releatively undefined how to increase it, GM's are free to do so. (And I have, in an attempt to constrain priests into behaving as the god sees fit, by tying it to cult skills/traits).

Originally Posted by RosenMcStern

Why POWx5? Either you roll Holiness or you do not roll at all for a Divine Spell.

Mages should be the experts at spell-casting. The roll makes priests less reliable - definitely 2nd-class spell-users. And having it a stat-roll, not a skill, shows it's not them doing the casting - it comes from the god.

Originally Posted by RosenMcStern

I think an appropriate Pilgrimage before being able to cast the spell (a minor HeroQuest in Glorantha) is a goodi idea. Having every priest with the same Holiness the same sounds not that good to me.

Originally Posted by Tywyll

Though I can't speak for the writer, to me it is because the idea of the God giving you a specific spell is kind of silly.

I guess neither method suits all settings, nor all tastes. Personally, I'm accustomed to the d20 "all-spells-available" thing, but I also like the RQ "quest-for-it" way - and use that for Paladins (aka RuneLords?), along with instant & infallible spell-casting, Rune-Magic style, BTW.

Originally Posted by tzunder

I think a good d20 magic to BRP conversion set (or sets) is crucial. These schema look like good broadbrush starters.

Ditto. And thanks! I'm not entirely happy with mine, due to many compromises with d20. With peterb posting his work on this subject, it's a golden opportunity to get them sorted...

Originally Posted by peterb

Method 1: Skill based system
<plus loads of good stuff, snipped>

I prefer the simplicity of MP Cost = Spell Level best, and 1 MP per expansion. Why do Mages only have more complex formulae? How do you decide what the default effect for d20 spell is? Have you found these moderate the damage of d20-style spells acceptably? Do you use just a normal POWvPOW for saving throws? The skill-per-school is good, too - but do you use any other magic related skills for mages? (Oh, and thanks for posting, btw - this is most interesting!)

[RosenMcStern]

Okay, just one more question.

Why translate all the D20 spells to BRP? There are wagonloads of spells available from all editions of CoC, RQ, SB that are more suited to BRP. Apart from your personal campaign, I mean.

[frogspawner]

Player inertia. It probably applies to campaigns other than mine, too. They like to think they're playing "D&D" (and the spells make it seem the same) - but it hasn't been, for years...
Plus, now we will hopefully have a new influx of ex-D&D-ers, disenchanted by 4e. Using spells they're familiar with should make their transition so much easier.

And the spells need hardly any translating for this system (and perhaps peterb's too). Define a few straightforward principles (e.g.: "AC" becomes 10-x APs; "+X to hit" becomes +X0% attack; any more?) and it could be done on-the-fly. (The difficult part is resisting the temptation to change them for the better...!)