Random Damage Bonus versus Static Damage Bonus

[Rurik]

I don't know, a giant's toothpick sounds like it could be pretty dangerous to me.

[Dredj]

Originally Posted by Rurik

I don't know, a giant's toothpick sounds like it could be pretty dangerous to me.

That would be a dagger

[Rurik]

Originally Posted by Dredj

That would be a dagger

Wow, small giants out in your neck of the woods.

I was thinking long spear at least - maybe pike.

[Dredj]

Originally Posted by Rurik

Wow, small giants out in your neck of the woods.

I was thinking long spear at least - maybe pike.

Yeah, we got pygmy giants were I live

[frogspawner]

Giants pike-sized toothpicks, fair enough. They could do plenty of base damage.

But a less extreme example would perhaps be a troll with a knife (d3+1, +2d6 bonus or more). Is getting the full db reasonable?

[Al.]

Evening all

This topic has sort of spread from the original question so I'll chuck in my ideas for the questions raised

1. Firearms Damage esp. 2d6+4 for Lee Enfields
Like I sort of posted on the thread about Firearm damages I prefer a small tweak to the CoC system. This reduces the die code escalation which can happen in BRP. Retains the possibility of grazing hits and also allows me to quickly make up stats for any firearm on the fly.

Pistol
Damage = 1d (metric calibre rounded up)
AP=0

Carbine
Damage =2d (metric calibre rounded down)
AP = (metric calibre rounded down)

Rifle
Damage = 2d (metric calibre rounded up)
AP=(metric calibre rounded up)

Cannon
AP Damage and AP as Rifle
HE Damage = 1d (metric calibre rounded up) but adds + (metric calibre rounded up) to chance to hit


Examples
.22 Pistol 1d6 damage no AP
.38 Pistol 1d10 damage no AP
.22 Carbine 1d10 damage 5 AP
.38 Rifle 2d10 damage 10 AP
.5 Rifle 2d12 damage 12 AP (admittedly this one sort of breaks my rule-of-thumb as there is no d13)

30mm Cannon AP 2d30 damage 30AP
30mm Cannon HE 1d30 +30% Chance to hit


2. Limit of Damage Bonus
For magical augmentation I've ruled for years that you cannot boost weapon damage above twice base unaided (so Stormbringer does 2d8+2d8 not the current 2d8+every dice you have in your group's collection of dice)

Maybe you could do that for beasties with ridiculously small weapons (matron)


4. Granular Damage Bonus
Definitely a big fan of the Elric roll table style of more granular damage bonus
where =5 points Str+Siz adds =+d2
or to prevent unwieldiness for big beasties 15 points Str+Siz =+d6
To those who see an inherent contradiction. Yes there is one. But I am most interested in the differences at human scale.


5. Rubbish damage rolls with a good hit
This is flaw (some say feature but I say flaw) of BRP.

In Pendragon (not strictly BRP but bear with me) I changed damage to 'result of hit roll' + flat bonus. So rather than my Knight having 6d6 damage hitting with a roll of '18' and then rolling '6' on the damage dice he would do 18 (for the to hit roll) and 6 (for his damage stat).

I also halved Armour Points for Armour (but not Shields)

This makes it much deadlier between normal sized folk (as in Pendragon you hit if you roll under your skill AND your roll is higher than your foe's) so high numbers are more likely to be used for damage. But also paradoxically makes really BIG beasties less dangerous (as my Giant Fomori with 12d6 damage would previously do an average of 42 points and now does 12 + 'to hit' roll and maximum rollable drops right down from 72 to 32 points)

In BRP this is trickier but (untested) possibilities include:
Criticals add the result of the d100 'to hit' roll to damage done
Specials add the tens of the result of the d100 to hit roll
Multiply weapon maximum rollable damage by 'to hit' roll rather than roll damage
Not bother coz it doesn't come up that often anyway


6. Differentiating Weapons
Elric does indeed have a rule of thumb of

Spear +1
Sword +1
Axe, Mace +2

One could (and I have but not completely Satisfactorily) extend this to

Spear/Arrow/Quarrel bigger die +0
Sword bigger die +1
Axe smaller die +2
Heavy Blunt things smaller die +3

So
Shortspear 1d10
Bastard Sword 1d10+1
Battle Axe 1d8+2
Heavy Mace 1d8+3


I prefer to differentiate them by how they behave on a Special or Critical

Blunt double rolled damage bonus (or halve if its negative)
Cut Double rolled weapon damage
Impale Triple rolled weapon damage

And how they treat Armour
Axe halve AP of Shields
Flail halve AP of Chain (or of all Flexible Armours)
Mace halve AP of Chain (or of all Flexible Armours)
Pick halve AP of Plate


You could certainly do two or more of these



Al

[RosenMcStern]

As using a knife is punished by a giant's kick in Trollball (and you do not know how scary it looks until you have witnessed Greg Privat roleplay the giant - he has the physique du role), I definitely think Trolls use full damage modifiers while using knives. At least during Trollball matches.

[frogspawner]

Originally Posted by RosenMcStern

As using a knife is punished by a giant's kick in Trollball... I definitely think Trolls use full damage modifiers while using knives. At least during Trollball matches.

Er, I'm sure using any excuse to boot Trollball players around is a crowd-pleaser in that universe, but it hardly proves a rule we should use in this one...

Originally Posted by Al.

This topic has sort of spread from the original question...

Well, if a consensus arose about limiting damage bonuses, it might mean static damage bonuses (better at lower damages) gained favour over random-rolled damage bonuses (better at higher damages). But it's always nice to hear good ideas!

1. Firearms Damage esp. 2d6+4 for Lee Enfields... <snip>

Seems good to me.

2. Limit of Damage Bonus

Or maybe a limit equal to the weapon's STR requirement?

4. Granular Damage Bonus
... But I am most interested in the differences at human scale.

Me too. Wouldn't straight +1, +2 bonuses, up to the point where you start getting +Xd6's, be consistent enough?

5. Rubbish damage rolls with a good hit
This is flaw (some say feature but I say flaw) of BRP.
...
Not bother coz it doesn't come up that often anyway

Yeah, I'm not bothered. But if the 'flaw' bothers you, introducing a new "nearly Special" result (to go with Specials & Criticals) might fix it.

6. Differentiating Weapons
I prefer to differentiate them by how they behave on a Special or Critical

That works for me!

PS: Where'd 3 go?

[Rurik]

Another quick and dirty rule thought is that the Damage Bonus Die cannot be greater than the weapon damage die.

So a troll with a 2d6 Damage Bonus would have have his Damage Bonus limited to 2d3 when using a D3+1 knife. When using a dagger it would be limited to 2d4, etc.

That is just a quick random thought - I do not know the Damage Bonus Progression used by BRP as I have not bought the Zero Edition, so my mindset is coming from the RQ3 DB progression.

[RosenMcStern]

The point is that this works well if the damage dice are connected to the weapon impact and the "+" to sharpness (as it happened in RQ3 where maces had no +s and curved blades had +2). But with maces and axes doing smaller damage dice with a higher flat bonus, this might limit the damage bonus for blunt weapons more than it does for sharp weapons. Not very realistic IMO.

I think this discussion has little practical value. Shifting from a flat to a variable damage bonus is easy if you do not like the "official" values. 1d2 -> +1, 1d4 -> +2, etc. And weapon damage benefits more from special effect to be differentiated than on average rolls, though different rolls add to the enjoyment of most groups. Still, all the complications that can give damage values more realism are not well suited to all groups. Some like detail and realism, others just want to roll dice and get the game flowing.