Math and BRP

[Trifletraxor]

Originally Posted by Nightshade

I have to agree that there's a certain amount of mountain constructed from molehill here. First, most of these chances can be listed with the weapons involved; those get modifications to their to-hit, of course, but that doesn't happen all the time, or even the majority of the time. Second, even if you don't, you only need to check this in a subset of cases. With a 5% chance of a crit, you know you aren't critting on anything over a 5 (unless you have over 100% skill), so you don't need to wonder about it most of the time; same with specials on rolls over 20%.

Well, if 6000 gamers roll for 30 minutes...

20% and 5% is fine. I would prefer 10% and 1%, but I'm pretty used to 20 & 5.

Cheers,
Sverre.

[soltakss]

The trouble with writing down specials and criticals on the character sheet is that they need recalculating whenever you have any modifiers due to circumstances or spells.

But, yes, for speed in normal combat it's a good idea, but you have to be able to calculate the chances to write them down ....

[Nightshade]

Originally Posted by soltakss

The trouble with writing down specials and criticals on the character sheet is that they need recalculating whenever you have any modifiers due to circumstances or spells.

But, yes, for speed in normal combat it's a good idea, but you have to be able to calculate the chances to write them down ....

Most of those are just as trivial to keep track of because they're in 5% increments; since each 5% adds 1% to specials, if you can remember one you can remember the other. Crits aren't as tidy, but the breakpoints are so big it shouldn't be hard to notice when you hit them.

[soltakss]

Originally Posted by Nightshade

I have to agree that there's a certain amount of mountain constructed from molehill here. First, most of these chances can be listed with the weapons involved; those get modifications to their to-hit, of course, but that doesn't happen all the time, or even the majority of the time. Second, even if you don't, you only need to check this in a subset of cases. With a 5% chance of a crit, you know you aren't critting on anything over a 5 (unless you have over 100% skill), so you don't need to wonder about it most of the time; same with specials on rolls over 20%.

Exactly.

You only work it out when you need to or when it's close.

[McBard]

The chief reason I decided to go with a single special/critical mechanic at 10% was that it can be determined without math calculation at all:

A d100 roll that ends in a '0' and succeeds is a special success.
A d100 roll that ends in a '0' and fails is a special failure.

Although I completely agree that the 5% or 20% calculation isn't too difficult to determine on the fly (no chart needed), I really like the game design elegance of the "roll ending in '0'" simplicity.

If you want to retain the 20% rate, just rule that any roll that ends in a '0' or a '5' is a special result. (This is how Harnmaster works, btw, and it's the system from which I stole the idea...). I've never been a fan of the "super success" rule (i.e. criticals), but that's just me.

I think a single grain at 10% splits the difference between two at 5% and 20% just fine in game play.

[badcat]

The 10% has always been my favorite method, but another way to have a fast critical or special that takes advantage of the percentile granularity is to go with 5% skill increments and use 20% special with no critical. It is almost as effortless as 10%. As in RQ2, drop the 5% critical. The weapon damage by itself creates the 'critical'.

[Lord Twig]

Originally Posted by McBard

The chief reason I decided to go with a single special/critical mechanic at 10% was that it can be determined without math calculation at all:

A d100 roll that ends in a '0' and succeeds is a special success.
A d100 roll that ends in a '0' and fails is a special failure.

Although I completely agree that the 5% or 20% calculation isn't too difficult to determine on the fly (no chart needed), I really like the game design elegance of the "roll ending in '0'" simplicity.

If you want to retain the 20% rate, just rule that any roll that ends in a '0' or a '5' is a special result. (This is how Harnmaster works, btw, and its the system from which I stole the idea...). I've never been a fan of the "super success" rule (i.e. criticals), but that's just me.

I think a single grain at 10% splits the difference between two at 5% and 20% just fine in game play.

This works just fine, but there is a psychological factor to consider as well. With the standard system, lower is ALWAYS better. With your system a 30 is better than a 02. Again, mathematically it is just fine, some people (including myself) just don't like the feel.

[Nightshade]

I personally prefer to keep both a special and a critical result; the former provides more of a tool for weapon type differnces (since it can trigger the various special results for bashing, slashing and impaling weapons) while it doesn't overly gust really severe results, which are reserved for criticals.

The only thing I _do_ wish is that there was a more consistent way to handle criticals; treating it differently against armored and unarmored foes is ugly, but you get border conditions where crits mean less and less the less armor the target has.

[Enpeze]

Originally Posted by Nightshade

I personally prefer to keep both a special and a critical result; the former provides more of a tool for weapon type differnces (since it can trigger the various special results for bashing, slashing and impaling weapons) while it doesn't overly gust really severe results, which are reserved for criticals.

I agree. A special is not just an excellent attack. it could be also dangerous for the attacker himself. In the old BRP core rules the impaling weapon stuck in the target and could only be retrieved if the attacker rolled 2x impaling chance on d100. I didnt use this rule as it is written, but in my games the attacker has to make a normal skill roll if he want to pull the weapon out of the body of the target. Additionally it uses up one of his actions. More often than not the weapon remained in the target (which was sometimes running away - only to bleed out after a while) Tell me another rule system where such funny situations could happen.

Originally Posted by Nightshade

The only thing I _do_ wish is that there was a more consistent way to handle criticals; treating it differently against armored and unarmored foes is ugly, but you get border conditions where crits mean less and less the less armor the target has.

What do you mean with consistent? Crit hits target, target cannot parry - target dead most of the time. This I call consistent. Do you want to "innovate" the crit too?

[Enpeze]

Originally Posted by badcat

The 10% has always been my favorite method, but another way to have a fast critical or special that takes advantage of the percentile granularity is to go with 5% skill increments and use 20% special with no critical. It is almost as effortless as 10%. As in RQ2, drop the 5% critical. The weapon damage by itself creates the 'critical'.

I used 10% in my SB games in the past. Its simple to calculate on the fly and absolutely ok. OTOH 20%/5% ist just another layer of damage results for different weapon types which can be fun and lead sometimes to interesting situations (see above). I mean, 20/5 does not make BRP much more complicated, no? Whatever - I like both systems.