Math and BRP

[Trifletraxor]

Originally Posted by drohem

Our group eventually just dropped percentile and used a d20 for rolls with RQ3. All skills and modifiers were rounded to 5 or 0 and then we used a d20.

That's the Pendragon method, isn't it? Calculating 20% and 5% does bog down play a little. Not that much, but I would have liked to see a 10% special instead. It seems it will stay at 20% for the new system though.

Cheers,
Sverrre.

[RMS]

I like the Special at 20%. At 10% it happens too infrequently. I've never had these calculations bog down play at all. However, most of my RQ groups have been made up off math savy groups, so I understand that experience may be different from most.

I would prefer moving criticals to 10% and keeping specials at double that (20%) to decreasing specials.

[Lord Twig]

I personally like the 20% Specials and 5% Criticals. Of course 20 odd years of RQ3 might have influenced my opinion.

[Lord Twig]

I guess quick division in your head is hard for some people.

Thinking back I guess there would frequently be a case where someone needed to know what the Special or Critical chance of a certain percent was. In these cases, almost always, they would just look at me and I would tell them. Guess I have a talent for it.

So really not everyone needs to be good at math, you just need one.

[lawrence.whitaker]

Personally I've never liked the Specials. It adds in another layer of complication, and, even though the Mongoose system for cross-reffing levels of success has come in for some flack, cross reffing fumble/fail/success/special/crit is every bit as time consuming and cumbersome. The table in the DBRP preview I have is... pretty bloody awful, I have to say.

I prefer straight critical/success/fail/fumble. I can get my head around it much, much better.

[Jason Durall]

Originally Posted by Lord Twig

I personally like the 20% Specials and 5% Criticals.

This is the default for the new BRP.

[Jason Durall]

Originally Posted by lawrence.whitaker

I prefer straight critical/success/fail/fumble. I can get my head around it much, much better.

Even though the early playtesting showed that people wanted to keep the criticals, I was leaning towards just going "special/success/failure/fumble" to eliminate any of the confusion that came from whether a crit is actually better than a special, etc.

I liked the balance of "one normal and one better" on each side.

So they stayed in.

[lawrence.whitaker]

Even though the early playtesting showed that people wanted to keep the criticals, I was leaning towards just going "special/success/failure/fumble" to eliminate any of the confusion that came from whether a crit is actually better than a special, etc.

I liked the balance of "one normal and one better" on each side.

So they stayed in.

Hi Jason,

Are saying that criticals are in or out? If they're out, have you amended all the skill entries that give critical effects, and removed that level of success from the combat matrix? Sorry - but I'm not clear on what you mean in the above.

Loz

[RMS]

Originally Posted by lawrence.whitaker

Personally I've never liked the Specials. It adds in another layer of complication, and, even though the Mongoose system for cross-reffing levels of success has come in for some flack, cross reffing fumble/fail/success/special/crit is every bit as time consuming and cumbersome. The table in the DBRP preview I have is... pretty bloody awful, I have to say.

I prefer straight critical/success/fail/fumble. I can get my head around it much, much better.

I love the specials. They happen enough that it really does give one additional level of resolution so there are 25 possible outcomes anytime you roll opposed skills, and it happens enough to decide most opposed rolls with a single roll. I don't mind critical/success/fail/fumble, but criticals and fumbles are rare enough that many rolls come down to ties...which leads to inelegant messy mechanics for breaking those ties. I'm not a fan of blackjack mechanics, and even though I'm a math person I don't really like finding the difference between the target % and the rolled %.

I haven't seen the preview, but I don't know why you'd need a table for this. RQ never had one, and I'm pretty sure it's the only BRP with the special. It's pretty simple: Critical>Special>Success>Failure>Fumble. Whoever has the best success level wins. Use some common sense for how Failure>Fumble plays out verses Critcal>Special and you're good to go. Quick and simple...at least IMO.

I wonder if those of us who like the special are the ones brought up on RQ and those who don't see the need came in with other forms of BRP. Familiarity, etc.

[RMS]

Originally Posted by Lord Twig

I guess quick division in your head is hard for some people.

Then do multiplication and not division!

Thinking back I guess there would frequently be a case where someone needed to know what the Special or Critical chance of a certain percent was. In these cases, almost always, they would just look at me and I would tell them. Guess I have a talent for it.

The few nonmath savy sorts I've had in games, I have told them to find 10% of their target %. Then divide that by two and multiply it by two to get their critical and special chances. Once they think that way, it comes easily and quickly for them. Finding 5% and 20% of a number is simpler than many day-to-day calculations we have to do just to survive in the modern world. Go out to eat and you have to quickly calculate 15% or 20% for a tip. Go to a store and you have to track 6.125% (here) to know how much you're paying when you walk out the door for taxes, excepting food and clothing. So asking someone to quickly get 5% and 20% seems pretty trivial.

So really not everyone needs to be good at math, you just need one.

True.