Thread: Towards a more complete skill list

Originally Posted by frogspawner

As you prefer, but they're both just 'Clever Speaking' imho.

Still, I would find it difficult to see the famous fictional speeches (e.g. from
Shakespeare's Henry V) or real world speeches (e.g. by Winston Churchill)
as just another Fast Talk.

Besides, there is also the difference that good results of Oratory (= good
public speeches) are usually well prepared and skillfully composed works of
art, while Fast Talk is more like what a con man does on the fly whenever
he smells an easy mark.

Churchill was the arch-orator. Once, on making a speech in Parliament, he apologised for the length - 'Because I didn't have the time to write a shorter one.' Which is as true as it gets.

Some politicians are exceedingly poor orators and very good fast talkers, but more often than not, they're poor at both without a great deal of rehearsal and pre-briefing. A very good Fast Talker, and a good Orator, can perform both skills more or less off-the-cuff. The difference is that, in oration, its a one-way speech. In Fast Talk you're likely to be responding to questions and attempts to catch you out or trip you up. Like I say, very different skills, although yes, Frogspawner, they're both examples of Clever Speaking.

Originally Posted by frogspawner

Whatever. As you prefer, but they're both just 'Clever Speaking' imho.

Not quite. Fast talk is off the cuff. Oratory usually involves quite a bit of pre-speech writing, knowledge, and research. Again, fast talk is more trying to convince someone of something in that specific moment so that once they realize you are full of BS, you are already long gone. Oratory is trying to persuade people to believe you for a long period of time if not forever.

Ian

So - what's the shortest time (speaking and/or preparation) that you'd allow for use of Oratory?

Originally Posted by frogspawner

So - what's the shortest time (speaking and/or preparation) that you'd allow for use of Oratory?

I think I would require at least one hour of preparation for a public speech,
and give a small malus for a shorter preparation time and a small bonus for
a preparation time of at least one full day (perhaps -1 / +1).
As for the speech itself, it does not have to be long to be good. I seem to
remember that for example Lincoln's famous Gettisburgh address was quite
short.

Hmmm, after checking I find Legend doesn't actually have 'Fast Talk'. There's Influence, a version of Persuade, but that has long-lasting effects too.

Originally Posted by frogspawner

Hmmm, after checking I find Legend doesn't actually have 'Fast Talk'.

This does not surprise me, Fast Talk is one of the skills I usually delete from the
skill lists of my BRP settings and treat it as a short term version of the Persuade
skill.

Originally Posted by frogspawner

So - what's the shortest time (speaking and/or preparation) that you'd allow for use of Oratory?

As ever, it depends entirely on the circumstances. The great orators can stand-up and deliver a rousing speech with zero preparation or scripting. It comes from having clarity of thought, confidence, and the passion to deliver a message in a particular way based on the mood of the audience. It doesn't necessarily rely on pre-written or rehearsed material.

Originally Posted by rust

This does not surprise me, Fast Talk is one of the skills I usually delete from the
skill lists of my BRP settings and treat it as a short term version of the Persuade
skill.

Ditto. They are not exactly the same thing, but they are similar enough. Oratory is another story, though.

Originally Posted by lawrence.whitaker

The great orators can stand-up and deliver a rousing speech with zero preparation or scripting.

True, but I suspect that such great orators would rarely be found among the
average adventurers, and therefore would hesitate to consider this possible
for any character with an Oratory skill level below 90 % - partially because I
consider this realistic, partially because I would want to keep the ability to
influence mass audiences rather rare in my settings (why deal with a problem
yourself if you can easily inspire a few dozen other people to do it for you ...).