Thread: Please show some respect Mr monroe

Ben Monroe, you wrote this in answer to other posts about the BRP renaissance on RPG.Net "As far as I know, there's no animosity between Chaosium and Mongoose. Indeed Chaosium seemed all too happy to unload the albatross which is Moorcock onto Mongoose."
Please show some respect for Michael Moorcock, Mr Monroe. He isn't an albatross, to Chaosium. In fact if he hadn't agreed to let Chaosium use his work as the basis for a game, then there would be no Magic world, since it started out as Elric RPG, and you wouldn't have had a job working on that project. If anything Chaosium have been parasitic to Moorcock, gaining from Moorcock's talent at his expense. So please show some respect to Michael Moorcock, instead of simply being a sycophant for Chaosium.

Originally Posted by Ghost Sword

Ben Monroe, you wrote this in answer to other posts about the BRP renaissance on RPG.Net "As far as I know, there's no animosity between Chaosium and Mongoose. Indeed Chaosium seemed all too happy to unload the albatross which is Moorcock onto Mongoose."
Please show some respect for Michael Moorcock, Mr Monroe. He isn't an albatross, to Chaosium. In fact if he hadn't agreed to let Chaosium use his work as the basis for a game, then there would be no Magic world, since it started out as Elric RPG, and you wouldn't have had a job working on that project. If anything Chaosium have been parasitic to Moorcock, gaining from Moorcock's talent at his expense. So please show some respect to Michael Moorcock, instead of simply being a sycophant for Chaosium.

The Moorcock line that Chaosium was producing... Stormbringer, the supplements, Hawkmoon, etc., was not a line that was selling well enough for the effort being expended. In many companies in the world, this kind of product is known as a Financial Albatross.

Now the fact that this sentiment of your appears not only here, but RPGnet, and the fact that you seem to be targeting someone with vitrol, calling someone a sycophant for a company, someone who has worked for other companies (he is an independent writer) suggests to me that you might have another axe to grind.

If you are calling for civility, then please display it yourself.

Thank You
SDLeary

Dear Ghost Sword,

Many people here like a lot the Eternal Champion saga and have a deep respect for Mr. Moorcock as a person. I'm sure Ben Monroe is among them.

Having said that I dare to observe that registering in a forum for the sole purpose of starting what is technically called a "cross-forum drama" is generally frowned upon. Doing so on the basis of a single passing remark in an already old thread in the other forum borders the uncanny.

I do not want to enter into the old dispute between Mr. Moorcock and Chaosium. I am not privy to the facts and I cannot say whether Chaosium was indeed in breach of their contractual obligations to Mr. Moorcock. I believe that this dispute was settled when Mongoose acquired the rights to publish Eternal Champion rpgs. Maybe I'm wrong. I don't know.

What I do know, however, is that Magic World has absolutely nothing to do with Mr. Moorcock's intellectual properties and ideas. It draws simply from the game mechanics that were developed by Chaosium writers for earlier Chaosium games including Stormbringer but also RuneQuest and applies them to a generic fantasy setting that bears no resemblance whatsoever to the Eternal Champion saga.

MW shares with Stormbringer aspects of the combat system, the skill system, the resistance table, levels of success, experiece rolls etc. Game rules stuff! Not the Young Kingdoms, the Multiverse, the Lords of Chaos, or whatever setting idea might be specific to Moorcock.

Really, this indignation is uncalled for!

Take care,

Smiorgan

Originally Posted by Ghost Sword

Ben Monroe, you wrote this in answer to other posts about the BRP renaissance on RPG.Net

So you're stirring up shit in two separate forums, both of which you only have one post?

Pardon my french, Mr. Ghost Sword, but go f0ck yourself.

Edit: Today I learn the board bleeps out curses.

Originally Posted by Ghost Sword

So please show some respect to Michael Moorcock ...

A good way to show such respect would be not to meddle in Michael Moorcock's
affairs and not to behave as if one had been given the authority to speak in his
name. Michael Moorcock is perfectly able to speak for himself whenever he consi-
ders this necessary, he certainly does not need or want any patronizing support
from any self appointed forum vigilantes among his fans.

I like beer. Last night I had a coffee stout, a nut brown ale and a porter while playing Warhammer FRP with my friends. The stout and the ale were pretty good, but the porter was rather disappointing - kind of a bad aftertaste if you know what I mean.

You may well ask: "Filbanto, what does this have to do with the Magic World forum?"

A fair question and quite honestly I'd have to reply "Not a heck of a lot."

But then again, the original poster's message doesn't have a heck of a lot to do with Magic World either so I figured It'd be cool to add my own nonsensical ramblings.

Originally Posted by Ghost Sword

Ben Monroe, you wrote this in answer to other posts about the BRP renaissance on RPG.Net "As far as I know, there's no animosity between Chaosium and Mongoose. Indeed Chaosium seemed all too happy to unload the albatross which is Moorcock onto Mongoose."

Wow. You registered for an account on this forum to call me out for a comment I made on another forum almost two years ago? Okay...

http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?...4#post13807034

Originally Posted by Ghost Sword

Please show some respect for Michael Moorcock, Mr Monroe. He isn't an albatross, to Chaosium. In fact if he hadn't agreed to let Chaosium use his work as the basis for a game, then there would be no Magic world, since it started out as Elric RPG, and you wouldn't have had a job working on that project. If anything Chaosium have been parasitic to Moorcock, gaining from Moorcock's talent at his expense. So please show some respect to Michael Moorcock, instead of simply being a sycophant for Chaosium.

First off, let me say that I'm a fan of moorcock's writing. Indeed, over the last few months, I've gone back and reread the entire Eternal Champion oeuvre. That being said, I am not a fan of the way Mike has consistently bashed Chaosium over the last few years, nor the way he's consistently sicced his fans on Chaosium.

Without going into details of his contract with Chaosium (which I have read, have you?), I will address my point about the Moorcock IP being an "albatross". Simply, it took just as much time, effort, and resources to put out a Stormbringer supplement as it did a Cthulhu one. And the Stormbringer books sold in significantly less quantities. Sadly, the fans of the game were also increasingly vocal and critical of the work. Attempts to make them happy resulted in more name-calling, factless accusations, and grousing. My understanding was that when Chaosium no longer had anyone interested in helping the line, it became easier for them to sign it over to Mongoose. I have no idea what that deal might have entailed, nor how happy Mongoose is with their relationship with Moorcock.

As far as my "not having a job" if it weren't for Moorcock allowing Chaosium to create the game that was he basis for MW... I don't really know what to say about that.

When I started working on MW, we were discussing doing a fantasy supplement to BRP. Around this time, I found out just how ill Lynn Willis had become (the author and editor of Elric! and most of the Stormbringer line). At that point, and after talking with Chaosium, we decided to use Elric as the basis for a complete fantasy game, to be released as a tribute to Lynn, and all his work over the years.

Lynn had been a mentor to me in the publishing field for many years, and I wanted to do something to honor him. Magic World was the result. I also decided to decline any sort of monetary compensation for the book, in order to make sure it got out. For me, it was truly a labor of love.

Doesn't Moorcock sing / lead a rock band? He's perfectly capable of defending himself from Chaosium, White Gold style.

Originally Posted by zomben

Simply, it took just as much time, effort, and resources to put out a Stormbringer supplement as it did a Cthulhu one. And the Stormbringer books sold in significantly less quantities.

Somewhat off topic (if there is a topic), but I don't see why companies even bother with licensing properties. The temporary boost in sales doesn't seem worth the cost of:

• paying licensing fees,
• waiting for the license-holder to approve your work (witness Cubicle 7 and the BBC),
• dealing with "true fans" who will tear your work apart,
• risking any future profits if the license-holder decides to pull the license.

The only two motivations I can see are a) being REQUIRED to license someone else's work because yours is uncannily similar, and b) loving a work so much that you HAVE to play in their universe. A game set in the universe next door (i.e. a popular work with the serial numbers filed off) seems far safer and more secure. D&D and its imitators have elves, dwarves, and orcs but (after the hobbit and ent mistake) don't owe the Tolkien estate (or WotC) a dime.

Originally Posted by filbanto

I like beer. Last night I had a coffee stout, a nut brown ale and a porter while playing Warhammer FRP with my friends. The stout and the ale were pretty good, but the porter was rather disappointing - kind of a bad aftertaste if you know what I mean.

You may well ask: "Filbanto, what does this have to do with the Magic World forum?"

A fair question and quite honestly I'd have to reply "Not a heck of a lot."

But then again, the original poster's message doesn't have a heck of a lot to do with Magic World either so I figured It'd be cool to add my own nonsensical ramblings.

And I miss gaming in Madison! I bet I would have liked ale...