Dragon Lines v Celestial Empire

I just got my grubby little hands on both the above mentioned titles…

Now the main reason was to get my hands on a martial arts system that is fancy and flashy.

I am reading the books now in tandem, but I'm wondering if the two are compatible and will work well in conjunction…

The setting I'm going to use them in is a home-brewed pseudo-low-magic setting (takes some explanation that, but basically magic has been gone for a few millennia and is just now starting to return). For more info about it, there's link in my signature I hope. If not here. Its all a bit sketchy on the site, but its growing and being developed further through play, as opposed to sitting alone in my room pondering… so its slow going really.

I'm looking for a system that will let my players (and NPCs!) be cool and flashy, powerful and all that, while still not becoming flying martial artists of doom disrupting the "natural" order of things.

Any handy tips or pointers would be very helpful!

In advance thanks,

Jegergryte

It seems that the Celestial Empire styles are a lot more flashy than I prefer, seemingly solely based in super powers…

Also, would the Dragon Lines system work well for creating combat styles for non-asian inspired martial artists?

I'm thinking along the lines of a Broadsword or longsword style for knights, sharp-shooting for a sniper type ranger/hunter or backstabbing thief style…

Would letting players use experience to increase the martial art style seriously disrupt game balance?

The thing is, one of my players has the martial art skill, assassin type character… but he has no martial art style (seeing as I only bought this book yesterday)… considering this I could create a style for him, and let him be trained in it without having any of the techniques or powers (I intend to start out with normal styles without chi stuff)… or make him learn a style, if he so desires, which will start at default level (depending on how he learns it or how well the teach roll goes, if he gets a teacher)… hm…

Dragon Lines is very flash, very much in the wuxia genre and maybe a little too powerful for what you're after, as most styles have access to Powers. It's a great book however, one of my favourites.

Celestial Empire also does wuxia quite well if you want, but I thought that much of it was a tad more realistic if you are balancing martial artists against non martial artists (it depends on the setting - if non-martial artists can readily access magic, then I'ld go for a more wuxia approach with Powers to balance this). Both books have great setting material - Celestial Empire goes for a semi-historical, semi-fantasy approach to China; whilst Dragon Lines is very much a mythical-fantasy Asia.

I think both books described mundane martial arts as well, I'll have to check - maybe you just want to use the mundane martial arts instead.

Both are excellent supplements. I also recommend Mongoose's 'Land of Samurai' for RQ as well, as between all three titles you can make a great oriental game.

Thanks for the input Mankcam, yet I am under the impression that the CE styles are a lot more flashy, or at least a lot more powerful since they are, seemingly, solely based in super powers, whereas the the ones in DL may have access to powers (and spells) like that, yet still they give bonuses and powers that are not so badarse, yet cool and stylish...

My setting is not really mythical-fantasy-Asia, its more myhtic-fantasy with elements of steam punk, renaissance, high mediaeval and dark ages and so on… even possible elements of science fiction tech, depending on nation, continent and stuff like that. Its a very old world with a long, and secret, history…

So I want semi-flashy, yet not superhero martial artists flying about (I mean there are some, but they're more like plot devices than anything else), and I also want similar options to knights, paladins and so on…

I think I have Land of Samurai somewhere… I'll have a look-see. Thanks.

Using the guidelines from Dragon Lines I am thinking about creating a sword and shield martial art/combat style… with a technique similar to nimble defence applying to shields… good idea? bad idea?

I know the martial arts are meant to replace the d4 personality "feature" from BRP that gives skill bonuses… I think its a cool way of doing it, yet I find it very deterministic in the sense that it should be chosen at character creation like that… to implement it as more of a skill option I guess I should forgo the the skill bonuses, or at least lower them dramatically and let it be a in-game/downtime venture of training and stuff…

any thoughts or hints?

Here is an attempt, by using the guidelines from DL to create a shield and sword style…

Criticism, pointers, hints and all such stuff is welcome:

The Shielding Odan (Sword and shield style)

Style Attacks: Melee Weapon (one handed sword, usually Broadsword), Shield

Style Skills: Repair, First Aid, Strategy (Not certain more skills would apply, even though its not many listed, compared to the styles on DL)

Techniques:

Tier 1 Techniques:

Odan’s Crackdown (+10% to hit with Shield, Knockout Blow).

Shielding Strike (+10% to hit with sword, Feint).

Odan’s Blessing (+10% Shield parry, nimble defence [shield]).

Tier 2 Techniques:

Odan’s Retribution (+10% parry with Shield, Counterattack)

Odan’s Blizzard (Target's last attack(s) where parried and/or the target was subject to Shielding Strike previous round: +10 to hit with sword, Backstab) – not certain if Backstab is intended to work in this manner, the technique is intended as an “upgrade” from the tier 1 Shielding Strike. I'd like some clarification on this technique effect…

Odan’s Peace (+10 to parry with Shield, Disarm)

Though I haven't had a chance to get CE, I heartily approve the use of Dragon Lines. That's a killer book right there. I agree with Mankcam in it being one of my favorites. I unfortunately don't have a lot of practical experience with it.

Also, would the Dragon Lines system work well for creating combat styles for non-asian inspired martial artists?

I think so. I think it would be a great way of designing 'schools' of combat.

Would letting players use experience to increase the martial art style seriously disrupt game balance?

Game balance. What dirty little words.

I don't think what you're describing would be unbalancing necessarily. Are they neglecting some other advancement to focus on their martial arts style? If yes then I think you're ok.

Game balance. What dirty little words.

I know...

I don't think what you're describing would be unbalancing necessarily. Are they neglecting some other advancement to focus on their martial arts style? If yes then I think you're ok.

I'm fairly new at all this BRP stuff, what do you mean by "neglecting some other advancement"? I'm just thinking of allowing the players to check the experience box when successfully using the MA skill... which from what I understand is something DL changes, so that one can only improve through training and... I don't have the book here with me at work...

In BRP, you can also buy training from a master in order to increase your skill. Of course, while increasing by experience can include any variety of skills, you usually train in one skill only. Hence....

ah… then I follow. I think. Muddy… hm. I guess I'm wondering what the rationale behind the no-experience-increase for the Martial Arts skill in Dragon Lines…

1. I would recommend DL if you want to create your own styles.

2. I do not think that the Celestial Empire powers are "a lot more powerful" as their use requires Qì point expenditure. Player characters won't have unlimited supply of Qì points (no Power crystals or matrices in Imperial China...)

Hm… looking at knockout blow in DL and comparing to knockout attack in BGB I see significant differences… which to a certain degree I understand, although I do wonder why a knockout blow in DL does not actually knock out the target… unless they're already stunned or a so called "Lesser Foe"… the DL version stuns for 1d6 rounds, which then can be followed by a potential 1d6 hours if the character repeat the technique… this I find weird really. 24 seconds to knock someone out… for a long time certainly, but with a Difficult skill check, the target is knocked out somewhere between 11 to 20 rounds, about 2-4 minutes… usually enough to get moving and hidden, perhaps even done with what needs to be done…

Similarly DL does not specify the "duration" of Paralysis, or if it is a permanent condition (which I doubt)… then would the target be paralysed for 1d6 rounds, like the stun effect of Knockout blow, or 1d6 hours…

I'm fairly new at all this BRP stuff, what do you mean by "neglecting some other advancement"?

"Pay no attention to that man behind the curtian!" Rosen's explaination of my statement was a good and logical one. I'm so tempted to say that it's what I meant. Truth is, it was a mental slip and I was referring to some often used house rules of my own instead of actual printed rules. My bad.

Are the combat styles going to be used across the board? If everyone is going to have access to some sort of style then I would say that you'd be fine allowing the styles to increase with a skill check. It will make for a pretty high powered game, which is not a bad thing. If some PCs won't have access to styles your likely to see a marked difference in Player abilities. I really need to take a look at the book again though.

Hey all, there are three of us on the RPGnet forums that are interested in playing a martial arts game using Basic Roleplaying, possibly with the Celestial Empire and / or Dragon Lines supplements. Some pretty interesting discussion at this thread (including wuxia in spa-a-ace!):

http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?608305-Interest-BRP-based-Oriental-Martial-Arts-Game

If you might be interested in playing, and especially if you'd consider GMing, please check it out! Thanks!

The discussion concerns secret societies by now, but we're still looking for another GM;).

Otherwise, I'd run it, of course. But I really prefer playing:D!