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Thread: why don't 18 in Characteristics get more love?

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    Default why don't 18 in Characteristics get more love?

    Made some Runequest 6 characters tonight...and in doing so I noticed something.

    (Follow along on Page 18 of the book.)

    I have a 18 in CHA. I'm at near the pinnacle in human CHA. I get a +1 Experience Modifier, which is fine.

    Fine until I notice that someone with a 13 CHA (slightly better than average CHA) also gets a +1 Experience Modifier.

    I have a 18 in CON. I'm at near the pinnacle in human CON. I get a +3 Healing Rate, which is fine.

    Again, I'm OK with this until I figure out that someone with only a 13 CON also gets my +3 Healing Rate.

    Then to top it off, if I had a 18 POW I would think I was somewhat special. I bank my +3 Luck Points.

    But wait....some chump with only 13 POW also gets my +3 Luck Points.

    Basically...not sure I'd be happy with someone with 28% less in my Characteristic getting the same bonus I did. What's so special about being the best when mearly "above average" is now equal?

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    Derived characteristics and skills.

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    Yeah I saw this and felt the same way tgcb.

    I beefed up the tables, and any result of 13-18 now reads as an increment of 13-14, then I have new ascending increments for 15-16 and 17-18, then every 6 beyond this. So a CON of 15 would grant a Healing rate of 4, or a POW of 17 would give you 5 Luck Points for example.

    I haven't put it into play yet, it was just a tinkering I did, as I know my players will say exactly the same thing as you have identified. I'm sure my changes won't break the system, but it will make beginning characters a little more powerful than the authors originally envisioned. Shouldn't be much of an issue though, its better than than having players constantly complaining about it.
    Last edited by Mankcam; July 20th, 2013 at 09:41.

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    I could see a problem with this approach, if applied to all the stat related features. Particularly CHA. A CHA of 17-18 in your house rule would get an improvement roll bonus of +3, that is double the recommended advancement rate per session/story!

    The other 2, Healing Rate and Luck points are strong, but I feel not so game breaking as doubled advancement rate. Possibly go for 13-15, then 16-18 if you must. I suspect Pete and Loz wanted to discourage stat dumping, and I wonder if too great a reward for extreme stats may bring it back.
    Clearly, "what I like" is awesome, and a well-considered, educated opinion. While "what other people like" is stupid, and just a bunch of made up gobbledygoook. - zomben
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    To me it seems like a 28% range is way too much. But I also understand sometimes you have to skew things to make other things work.

    However, if I'm a new player (especially one coming over from another system), and I get to page 18 and think "the math in this game is wonky"...I may not give the other 440 pages a chance. Also, there are pages later showing how each type of weapon is "unique" and has it's own feel (they don't lump all swords into one category for example). So why does the falchion get different stats than a scimitar? Aren't they "close enough to be the same"? They're not 28% different are they?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tgcb View Post
    To me it seems like a 28% range is way too much. But I also understand sometimes you have to skew things to make other things work.

    However, if I'm a new player (especially one coming over from another system), and I get to page 18 and think "the math in this game is wonky"...I may not give the other 440 pages a chance. Also, there are pages later showing how each type of weapon is "unique" and has it's own feel (they don't lump all swords into one category for example). So why does the falchion get different stats than a scimitar? Aren't they "close enough to be the same"? They're not 28% different are they?
    Sorry, what is this 28% thing? You've lost me.
    Clearly, "what I like" is awesome, and a well-considered, educated opinion. While "what other people like" is stupid, and just a bunch of made up gobbledygoook. - zomben
    Victor of the "I Bought, We Won"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Psychman View Post
    Sorry, what is this 28% thing? You've lost me.

    13 (the low end of the range) is 72.22% of 18 (the high end of the range). 13 is 5 less than 18, making 13 approximately 27.77% (or 28%) less than 18.

    In other words, the low end of the range is 28% less than the high end of the range. So basically someone who is almost 1/3rd worse in a stat than you is getting the same benefit as you are. Say you take a test and you get 90% and the stoner in the back row gets a 65%. But the teacher gives you both an "A". How would you feel?
    Last edited by tgcb; July 20th, 2013 at 15:02.

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    Ah, but where in other games (tm) the stats get actual active use, in RQ6 they essentially mark starting potential for the vast majority of applications. The 18 STR person has a full 5% advantage in skill development over the 13 STR guy. The majority of uses of a character's natural capabilities are in the skills, not the derived secondary characteristics.

    This is the marked difference between RQ6 and "that other game" and many others where the stat plays a significant ongoing role in the character's chances of succeeding in a task. So to use your exam example, the stat difference is more like a "reading age" assessment than a final exam. The final exam is a more of a skill comparison.

    That's how I read it anyway.
    Clearly, "what I like" is awesome, and a well-considered, educated opinion. While "what other people like" is stupid, and just a bunch of made up gobbledygoook. - zomben
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    OK, here's a better example:

    You are the pinnacle of health (CON 18) and you happen to break your leg. A jerk you hate, who is no where near as healthy as you (a mere CON 13), also breaks his leg.

    Instead of you getting out of the hospital several days before he does, since you both have the same Healing Rate, you both get out of the hospital at the same time.

    Now how do you feel about it?


    PS- I do realize that in skills the 18 is going to be superior to the 13...just wondering why in these other areas it can't also be superior, since obviously it is superior.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tgcb View Post
    OK, here's a better example:

    You are the pinnacle of health (CON 18) and you happen to break your leg. A jerk you hate, who is no where near as healthy as you (a mere CON 13), also breaks his leg.

    Instead of you getting out of the hospital several days before he does, since you both have the same Healing Rate, you both get out of the hospital at the same time.

    Now how do you feel about it?


    PS- I do realize that in skills the 18 is going to be superior to the 13...just wondering why in these other areas it can't also be superior, since obviously it is superior.
    I never said don't adjust the secondary stats, I just think the impact could be greater than you might first think, particularly with Charisma.

    Re the hospital example, the Hospital probably discharges people once they are deemed able to manage independently, not necessarily waiting until they are fully healed. They need the beds after all. So our two patients my heal at the same rate, but the CON 18 person, having a higher Endurance skill, would be able to manage independently before the CON 13 patient, if only by a day or two... ;-)
    Clearly, "what I like" is awesome, and a well-considered, educated opinion. While "what other people like" is stupid, and just a bunch of made up gobbledygoook. - zomben
    Victor of the "I Bought, We Won"

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