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Thread: Question on Grapple Rules

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    Default Question on Grapple Rules

    I've been running Call of Cthulhu for several months now, but I'm still a little unsure about the grapple rule. From the way I read it, the attacker roles his Grapple check, and if he succeeds he has grappled his target. However, when the attacker rolls his Grapple check, the target also gets to roll a counter-Grapple check, and if he succeeds, the Grapple is foiled. The next round is where I get confused though. The rules on p. 68 of the sixth ed. seem to state that in the same round the grappler can roll a STR vs. STR roll to immobilize the target, knock the target down, knock out the target. However, if the grappler wants to physically injure the target in that round he needs an additional grapple roll? This seems like a lot of grapple rolls in a single round. Also, if I'm reading this correctly, the grappler needs to succeed on a new grapple roll for each consecutive round, unless he succeeded on a STR roll in the first round to indefinitely immobilize the target.

    Is this correct, or does the first successful grapple roll extend into subsequent rounds?
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    The frequent difficulties with both Grapple and teh Martial Arts skill are part of what prompted the changes in 7e.

    But sorry, can't help you get to grips with your problem :-)

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    I'd like to know, too, since I've been writing up lots of superheroes with Grapple and Martial Arts. I have similar question about the Entangle rules as well, since they're somewhat related to immobilizing a foe with Grapple. It seems awfully difficult to pin or entangle an opponent in BRP, especially if, as Paul_Va notes, the foe has multiple chances to wiggle free.

    If the rules really work as they seem to, BRP Spider-Man might as well hang up his webs, Kato facing a gang of thugs is in trouble, and Zorro's Black Whip is pretty useless.
    Last edited by seneschal; November 16th, 2013 at 15:03.

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    I've taken a look through my Laundry rulebook since originally posting and it has this to say (note one of the authors did some of the BGB stuff). This is the text of the Grapple skill therein, hope it helps.

    Your character must make a successful Grapple roll to establish a hold on their opponent. Grapple attacks can be parried using the Grapple skill or avoided with the Dodge skill. Once a hold is established, your character must make a successful Grapple roll each round to maintain a hold. Taking any action other than one of the grappling actions listed here breaks a hold.

    Each turn that your character has someone in a grapple hold, they can perform one of the following actions:
    Choke: Your character tries to choke their opponent. The opponent must make an Endurance roll each round or suffer 1d3 plus your character’s damage bonus in Hit Point damage. This continues until the opponent breaks free, falls unconscious, or dies. If the Grapple roll is a special success, the Endurance roll is Difficult.

    Disarm: Your character matches their STR against the opponent’s STR on the Resistance table. If your character
    succeeds, the opponent drops any weapon or item they are holding. If the opponent wins, they do not drop anything
    but are still in the hold.

    Immobilise: Match your character’s STR against the opponent’s STR on the Resistance table. If your character
    wins, the opponent is immobilised and cannot act until free. If the opponent wins, they can take an action, though they are still held.

    Injure: Match your character’s STR against the opponent’s STR on the Resistance table. If successful, your character
    hurts the opponent using brute strength, inflicting 1d3 points of damage plus their damage bonus to the opponent.
    This can be attempted until the opponent breaks free or wins the Resistance roll.

    Takedown: Your character automatically makes a Resistance roll with their STR vs. the opponent’s SIZ, dragging both
    characters to the ground. The opponent must make a successful Agility roll or suffer one point of damage. If an Agility roll fails, the opponent is on the ground in a disadvantageous position and all actions against them are Easy until they are up or change position.

    Throw: Make a Resistance roll of your character’s STR against the opponent’s SIZ. If your character wins, the opponent is thrown 1d6 metres, is automatically knocked down and must make an Agility roll or suffer 1d6 points of damage. Throwing a target releases a hold. If the opponent wins the Resistance roll, they are released from the hold and remain standing.

    Once in a hold, an opponent can attack your character if they have any free limbs, using Brawl (punches or head butts only) or any small weapon (knives or handguns). If two hands are free, the target can attempt to Grapple back. Multiple attackers can attempt to grapple a single target, though no more than two attackers can hold any one location. Combine the STR ratings of both attackers in all contested tests.

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    @nclarke

    As a house rule in my campaign I assume that the standard rules are for classic wrestling & Thuggee Phansigar's badshashi kam (kingly work) styles, and allow other primary 'attack' stats for other grappling styles (e.g. Int for Akido/Judo; and Dex for Monkey Kung Fu).

    I also allow a simultaneous Martial Arts (Style) roll along with Grapple to allow Injure to do 2d3, & Throw to do 2d6.
    Last edited by Bandersnatch; January 24th, 2014 at 17:55.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nclarke View Post
    I've taken a look through my Laundry rulebook since originally posting and it has this to say (note one of the authors did some of the BGB stuff). This is the text of the Grapple skill therein, hope it helps.

    Your character must make a successful Grapple roll to establish a hold on their opponent. Grapple attacks can be parried using the Grapple skill or avoided with the Dodge skill. Once a hold is established, your character must make a successful Grapple roll each round to maintain a hold. Taking any action other than one of the grappling actions listed here breaks a hold.

    Each turn that your character has someone in a grapple hold, they can perform one of the following actions:
    Choke: Your character tries to choke their opponent. The opponent must make an Endurance roll each round or suffer 1d3 plus your character’s damage bonus in Hit Point damage. This continues until the opponent breaks free, falls unconscious, or dies. If the Grapple roll is a special success, the Endurance roll is Difficult.

    Disarm: Your character matches their STR against the opponent’s STR on the Resistance table. If your character
    succeeds, the opponent drops any weapon or item they are holding. If the opponent wins, they do not drop anything
    but are still in the hold.

    Immobilise: Match your character’s STR against the opponent’s STR on the Resistance table. If your character
    wins, the opponent is immobilised and cannot act until free. If the opponent wins, they can take an action, though they are still held.

    Injure: Match your character’s STR against the opponent’s STR on the Resistance table. If successful, your character
    hurts the opponent using brute strength, inflicting 1d3 points of damage plus their damage bonus to the opponent.
    This can be attempted until the opponent breaks free or wins the Resistance roll.

    Takedown: Your character automatically makes a Resistance roll with their STR vs. the opponent’s SIZ, dragging both
    characters to the ground. The opponent must make a successful Agility roll or suffer one point of damage. If an Agility roll fails, the opponent is on the ground in a disadvantageous position and all actions against them are Easy until they are up or change position.

    Throw: Make a Resistance roll of your character’s STR against the opponent’s SIZ. If your character wins, the opponent is thrown 1d6 metres, is automatically knocked down and must make an Agility roll or suffer 1d6 points of damage. Throwing a target releases a hold. If the opponent wins the Resistance roll, they are released from the hold and remain standing.

    Once in a hold, an opponent can attack your character if they have any free limbs, using Brawl (punches or head butts only) or any small weapon (knives or handguns). If two hands are free, the target can attempt to Grapple back. Multiple attackers can attempt to grapple a single target, though no more than two attackers can hold any one location. Combine the STR ratings of both attackers in all contested tests.
    Thanks for that NClarke. I'm curious whether or not the grapple actions can be applied in the first round, on only after the second. What do you think?
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    Paul, reading the text 'Your character must make a successful Grapple roll...' implies to me that you start a combat with a Grapple skill test. This establishes a Grapple hold. The next turn you make Grapple test to continue the hold and can apply one of the actions listed.

    The sequence given suggests that on the first turn you can only establish the hold and on the second and subsequent turns can take appropriate actions. But then that's how I read it, try it both ways and see how it plays out.

    Nigel

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    My interpretation would be that first you establish the Grapple hold, then in subsequent turns can either maintain the Grapple hold by rolling again, or apply one of the listed actions.
    RPGbericht (Dutch)

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    Vorax, if you read some of the options you can take when you have someone in a Grapple hold it's obvious (at least to me) that they are in addition to the maintaining a Grapple test.

    You couldn't Choke someone under these rules with out being able to continue the Grapple and use the Choke action in the same round.

    It says that you have to use a Grapple test successfully to maintain the hold and Choke requires a victim in the Grapple hold to make a successful Endurance roll or take damage each round. You can't maintain the Grapple without making a successful Grapple test (and if it is a Special success it makes the Endurance test harder). Ergo the Grapple test is made each turn before the Choke test and if failed (or Parried or Dodged) the victim gets free. Similarly if the Grapple test is successful and the victim parries successfully or succeeds in their own Grapple skill check then there is no Grapple Hold and the action choices are not available.

    Someone with a decent Parry or Dodge is unlikely to be held in a Grapple using these rules unless there is some other factor involved.

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    Sure, but this is how I'd run it.
    RPGbericht (Dutch)

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